Parable of the Talents

[DeafPosttrib]

StandingfirminChrist,

I disagree with you, you say, nowhere scripture saying that Abraham and Lazarcus saw the rich man.

Luke 16:23 tells us, the rich man in the hell, saw Abraham and Lazarcus across gulf between hell and bosom. No question, Abraham and all O.T. saints must already saw all unsaved O.T. people in the hell during O.T. period pre-Calvary.

NOW, we are in the N.T. period. All N.T. saints cannot see hell, both hell and heaven are apart away completely. Once, all N.T. saints died, then immediately, their soul/spirit go into heaven with the Lord.

Matt. 25:30 and others deal with everlasting punishment.

We have to be careful about 'hell' & 'lake of fire'. Many saying, both should be separate depend on what the verse is talking about.

But, no question, hell WILL BE CAST INTO the lake of fire - Rev. 20:11-15.

Hell is for the "reservation" or "prison" awaiting for the coming judgment day, THEN, hell shall be cast into the lake of fire. Lake of fire is a final eternality punishment.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Benjamin]

DPT,

Actually the scriptures shows that they spoke but not that Abraham saw the rich man only that the rich man saw Abraham, although, I don't know if there is a point to this about them both seeing each other being the scripture is silent on the visual both ways.

I guess if the rich man was in utter darkness that could be the case...?

Then again how could the rich man be in utter darkness if he was being tormented in flame?

Nevermind!

 

[Rex77]

Benjamin quote
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Then again how could the rich man be in utter darkness if he was being tormented in flame?
------------------------

Maybe we have a science teacher who can verify this.
I heard as to heat there is redhot, then whitehot, then blackhot, where the flames cannot be seen.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Scripture does indeed say hell is a place of outer darkness. And yes, it does speak of the flames of hell. Many have tried to say the flames were just memories of the past life (the rich man remembered his 5 brothers), but it is much more than this. The rich man wanted water to cool his tongue; "For I am tormented in this flame."

He wanted water to cool. He was hot. The flames were real. I have indeed heard of a 'black fire,' where the flame is so hot that the flame literally is black. I have not seen it, but it stands to reason that if the Bible says that hell is a place of outer darkness and that it has flames, it must be a black fire... otherwise it would not be outer darkness, for it would be lit up.

No, DPT, the Bible does not say that Abraham saw the rich man in hell. Likewise, it does not say that Lazarus saw the rich man in hell. We cannot add to scripture and say that either saw that man.

 

[Bro Tony]

Benjamin quote
--------------------------
Then again how could the rich man be in utter darkness if he was being tormented in flame?
------------------------

Maybe we have a science teacher who can verify this.
I heard as to heat there is redhot, then whitehot, then blackhot, where the flames cannot be seen.

Rex,

It is clear at times that we cannot see the hottest flame. If anyone has ever watched the car races and the announcer has said the wrecked car is on fire, and we cannot see the flame with our eyes. Just a thought.

Bro Tony

 

[Hope of Glory]

If anyone has ever watched the car races and the announcer has said the wrecked car is on fire, and we cannot see the flame with our eyes.

If it were dark, you could see those flames. Trust me. (FWIW, that's one reason that alcohol cars are banned in many motorsports competitions; it's difficult to see the flames, even more than the flames of other fuels.)

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The fact that God is all powerful, that He was able to speak this world into existance by just speaking the words... shows that nothing is impossible for the God that created this world. Exen so much as a black fire.

One may say impossible, yet Matthew tells us all things are possible. Jesus said Hell is a place of outer darkness, I believe Him. It is outer darkness. No question.

He said it was a place of torment in flames. Again, I believe Him.

But whether I believed Him or not, would not make it any less dark, or the flames any brighter.

Numbers 23:19 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? [/QUOTE]

 

[Hope of Glory]

The fact that God is all powerful, that He was able to speak this world into existance by just speaking the words... shows that nothing is impossible for the God that created this world. Exen so much as a black fire.

Impossible? No. Biblical? No. No more so than aliens sucking all the oil out of the lamps.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Aliens did not suck the oil out of the lamps, and for you to imply that we would even think such an asinine thing is just as foolish as the five virgins. Why can't you understand that the Bible says the five foolish virgins "took no oil" with them.?


Does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the word 'NO' means exactly what it says. They took no oil.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Impossible? No. Biblical? No. No more so than aliens sucking all the oil out of the lamps.

The Black Fire is very biblical.
Jesus Himself said that hell is a place of outer darkness. Don't you believe Him?

Jesus Himself said the rich man lifted his eyes in hell. Don't you beleive Him?

Jesus Himself said the rich man was tormented in flames. Don't you believe Him?

If it was a place of outer darkness, yet flames were burning, it stands to reason the flames were dark also. Black as black can ever get.

One cannot light a match in a darkened room and the room remain dark, yet Jesus said that hell is a place of outer darkness. Light will never reach hell.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

HoG,

Please produce scripture that says the fires of hell light up hell.

 

[Bro Tony]

Don't take what I'm about to say wrong, but I don't think ultimately we can compare the fires of hell to any fire here on earth. I certainly believe they are literal---but in the same way nothing here on earth can compare to the glory of heaven, nothing on earth can compare to the pain, torment, fire and darkness of hell.

Bro Tony

 

[Benjamin]

The Black Fire is very biblical.
Jesus Himself said that hell is a place of outer darkness. Don't you believe Him?

I’m not so sure Jesus said that and think you might be reading that in because darkness refers to obscurity, as in away from the light, or away from Jesus (the Light) and His kingdom.

Outer darkness is mentioned three times only in the Gospel of Matthew and possibly refers to the second coming being metaphorically spoken of in the wedding banquet and with all accounts in parables. The account of Lazarus and the rich man speaks directly of hell and outer darkness is not even mentioned there.

Darkness looks to imply in the “shadow of death”, (mentioned 19 times that way) meaning separation, and headed toward hell because of that separation. Being cast into darkness is seen all three times happening before the following statements of “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth”.

Anyway the word “darkness” is consistently used throughout scripture meaning separation from the light of Truth and I do not see it clearly said by Jesus that hell is literally dark and if so this is no proof that the rich man was not seen.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Benjamin,

Do a study. You will find out in all three places that the place of outer darkness is mentioned, Christ is speaking of hell.

Here are a couple more scriptures to show hell is a place of darkness.

2 Peter 2:4 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I would say those two verses should shed some light on the fact that hell is indeed a place of darkness.

 

[Benjamin]

SFiC,

Do a study. You will find out in all three places that the place of outer darkness is mentioned, Christ is speaking of hell.

I accually did study this looking at every instance of darkness and saw it was always prior to hell and never directly placed within hell by Jesus Words. I would only agree Jesus is speaking of hell to come after being separated and in darkness.

Here are a couple more scriptures to show hell is a place of darkness.

Both scriptures are speaking of being "reserved" before judgment.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Benjamin,

Not so. In Jude we see them cast into hell unto darkness. Hell preceeds the darkness.

 

[Benjamin]

Benjamin,

Not so. In Jude we see them cast into hell unto darkness. Hell preceeds the darkness.

Where do you get everlasting chains under darkness to mean hell?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Where do you get everlasting chains under darkness to mean hell?

Ever hear of rightly dividing the Word of Truth? If they are cast into hell, and they are under darkness, then it stands to reason that hell is a place of darkness.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Matthew 25:41 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jude 1:6-13 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. 8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Just those two verses show hell is a place of darkness. Hell is a place prepared for the devil and his angels to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. If the fires of hell could light hell up at all, then it would not be forever.

 

[Benjamin]

Ever hear of rightly dividing the Word of Truth? If they are cast into hell, and they are under darkness, then it stands to reason that hell is a place of darkness.

Sure have! Hear that expression misused all the time. You’ve disregarded the meaning of darkness and then reasoned hell being prior by chopping up the Word to fit your belief instead of looking into the whole Word with a single clean cut to examine it; making statements like:

The Black Fire is very biblical.
Jesus Himself said that hell is a place of outer darkness. Don't you believe Him?

Similar to saying the virgins had “NO” oil while disregarding that their lamps went out. Black fire is not biblical and Jesus never said, “hell is a place of outer darkness” !

Scripture does indeed say hell is a place of outer darkness. And yes, it does speak of the flames of hell.

Make a statement drawn from a parable, proclaim Jesus literally said so, without logically backing it up with the meaning of darkness, then go into a spew chopping out the flames of hell and adding it in proclaiming it is pitch dark in hell and there must be biblical black fire.

Darkness is being out of the light of Truth and is always referred to mean in the “shadow of death” Hell IS death and comes after judgment as none are lost but the son of perdition. Being chained unto darkness is condemned to being out of the light of Truth “reserved” unto judgment.

everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Here we go again, chop out of another parable “everlasting fire” proclaim it to be synonymous with the “everlasting chains” under darkness and state everlasting must mean hell is pitch dark.

to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

“RESERVED” the “blackness” meaning GLOOM under a cloud of “darkness” meaning away from the light of Truth.

Just those two verses show hell is a place of darkness.

Does not. This reminds me of the saying, “fuzzy math”, but hey if you what to believe that hell is literally pitch dark it’s no skin off of my back.