Parable of the Talents

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Rejecting the Messiah has nothing to do with eternal salvation.

Now a better question is do you believe that all saved people spend eternity with God. And the answer to that question is a resounding YES! Absolutely!!!

However what peolpe fail to understand is that there is an age of time that we will go through before we step into eternity. And that is the coming age of the kingdom of Christ, which will last 1,000 years.

And there is the possibility that an eternally saved person will be separated from Christ/God during that time.

You may study, you may believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but the doctrines you teach are contrary to scripture totally. Other doctrines you have been teaching in other threads concerning Salvation: One does not have to repent of one's sins, confess, or call upon the name of the Lord
in order to be saved.

Since the Bible clearly says Jesus said He would never leave His children, nor forsake them, you are wrong about them being separated from Christ for any length of time; in this world, or in the world to come.

Since Jesus said 'He that hath the Son hath life, but he that hath not the Son hath not life; but the wrath of God abideth on him,' you are wrong when you say rejecting the Messiah has nothing to do with Salvation.

Since Paul wrote in his epistle to the Romans that one must confess with one's mouth, believe in one's heart, call upon the Lord in order to be saved; and since Jesus Christ said one must repent of one's sins, you are wrong about just believing is all a person has to do.

Since Paul said in Galations 1:

8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And Jesus said in Matthew 7:

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.,

I can safely say you speak of Christ and seem to have a head knowledge (however jumbled and misunderstood it is), but your heart needs to grasp the reality of Christ, the Messiah and King.

sfiC, Linda64, and others who believe that Christ will never leave you, keep preaching it. You will not be turned away from Him if you are His.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Now a better question is do you believe that all saved people spend eternity with God. And the answer to that question is a resounding YES! Absolutely!!!

However what peolpe fail to understand is that there is an age of time that we will go through before we step into eternity. And that is the coming age of the kingdom of Christ, which will last 1,000 years.

Really? That contradicts the fact that Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4 that at the time of the Rapture, 'so shall we ever be with the Lord.' How can we ever be with the Lord if we are separated from Him? According to Paul's writing, eternity begins at the time we are raptured from the earth.

And there is the possibility that an eternally saved person will be separated from Christ/God during that time.

First paragraph contradicts the third paragraph totally. Unstable... very, very unstable!

 

[J. Jump]

Since the Bible clearly says Jesus said He would never leave His children, nor forsake them, you are wrong about them being separated from Christ for any length of time; in this world, or in the world to come.

Show me with Scripture, not just your word, where Christ promised to be with ALL His "children" forever without end. The only place that I can remember that being said was in relation to His disciples. Not all children are disciples. See what you do is you rip things out of context and apply them any ole way you please.

Part of context is who is it written to. Now if you are truly a disciple of Christ then that is something that you can hold on to. But if you are not a disciple then you can't claim that promise.

Now I'll be glad to eat crow if you can show me Scripture where Christ said He would never leave nor forsake ALL His "children."

Since Jesus said 'He that hath the Son hath life, but he that hath not the Son hath not life; but the wrath of God abideth on him,' you are wrong when you say rejecting the Messiah has nothing to do with Salvation.

Now here you go making things up. Again you need to understand as many others that eternal salvation is not the only salvation that is discussed in the Bible.

Rejecting the Messiah has everything to do with salvation, but not eternal salvation. It has to do with the salvation of the soul.

Eternal salvation (salvation of the spirit) has NOTHING to do with Christ as King, but is ENTIRELY dependant upon Jesus as the Lamb. You are accepting the Sacrifice made on your behalf. It is the Lamb that is sacrificed. Christ being King only comes into play when you accept Jesus as the Lamb.

Since Paul wrote in his epistle to the Romans that one must confess with one's mouth, believe in one's heart, call upon the Lord in order to be saved; and since Jesus Christ said one must repent of one's sins, you are wrong about just believing is all a person has to do.

Well I guess Acts 16:30-31 is just a lie then and we shouldn't believe any part of the Bible. I guess Ephesians 2:8-9 is just a lie then and we shouldn't believe any part of the Bible then. The Bible says faith/believe and that's it. If you don't want to believe that and deny Scripture then that's between you and God. But just because you deny it doesn't make it invisible to the rest.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

That is speaking of false teachers, not the general population of saved individuals.

I can safely say you speak of Christ and seem to have a head knowledge (however jumbled and misunderstood it is), but your heart needs to grasp the reality of Christ, the Messiah and King.

And I can safely say that is one funny statement. Thanks for the light moment!

Really? That contradicts the fact that Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4 that at the time of the Rapture, 'so shall we ever be with the Lord.' How can we ever be with the Lord if we are separated from Him? According to Paul's writing, eternity begins at the time we are raptured from the earth.

Go back and look at his audience and I think you will find that he was speaking to those that were faithful. Not all Christians are faithful. Chapter 4 verse 1.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Those who have repented, confessed, believed, and called are assured that Jesus Christ is in them... otherwise, they are reprobates (unapproved, rejected, worthless, a castaway). The child of God is not worthless. Christ loves each and every one that has come to Him with a broken and contrite spirit and will accept him or her and not cast them away.

He will never leave, nor forsake His children.

 

[J. Jump]

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Again you are plucking a verse out of its context and just making it say what you want it to say. Go back and look at the context.

You are saying that Paul is telling saved individuals to make sure they are saved. That doesn't even make sense. You can't be saved and then somehow unsaved. You can't be saved and constantly need to check yourself to make sure you are still saved. That just defies what Scripture says in regard to eternal salvation.

The faith is a phrase used in reference to the word of the kingdom, the word of God, the salvation of the soul, etc.

Context, context, context!

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The bottom line is...

One must repent of one's sin:

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

One must confess Christ with one's mouth and believe in one's heart that God has raised Him from the dead:

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

One must call upon the name of the Lord:

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

All three give prerequisites to salvation. No way getting around that. If one does not believe that one has to confess Christ and call upon His name, if one does not repent of one's sins, one cannot be saved.

Christ said in John 14:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Well, as pointed out earlier, one of His commandments was 'Repent (see Matthew 4).' Was repent meant as a suggestion? or a command?

 

[Gershom]

Well, as pointed out earlier, one of His commandments was 'Repent (see Matthew 4).' Was repent meant as a suggestion? or a command?

Who was Jesus preaching to when He told the hearers to "repent" in Matthew 4, and what did He mean when He said "repent", i.e., what did such repentance entail?

 

[J. Jump]

One must repent of one's sin:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Bible

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The context is the kingdom of the heavens not eternal salvation. The kingdom is not eternal salvation. Two different things being spoken of.
Again why would Acts 16:30-31 and Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4 leave out all your steps? Either the authors where lying when they wrote that, which means the Holy Spirit is a liar, which means God is a liar, or they were telling the truth and those things aren't required for salvation.
The second is the only possible option.

One must confess Christ with one's mouth and believe in one's heart that God has raised Him from the dead:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Bible

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Please show me one Scripture verse where confession pays the penalty for sin. It's not there. Death and shed blood alone pay the debt for sin. And believing approrpiates the blood on your behalf allowing the Holy Spirit to breathe life into your dead spirit.
Confessing Jesus as the Messiah is not eternal salvation. Eternal salvation comes from the Lamb, not the Messiah.

One must call upon the name of the Lord:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Bible

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Show me one verse of Scripture that says calling on the name of the Lord pays the penalty for sin. It's not there. The name of the Lord doesn't save us, it is His death and shed blood that saves us.

All three give prerequisites to salvation.

Yeah just not the eternal salvation that you are speaking about. Again you have to get past the idea that the Bible only speaks about eternal salvation. If you never get past that idea then you are going to run into major problems with the way Scripture lays things out.
What you have described is a works based salvation. You confess, you call, you repent. Where are the works of Christ?

Was repent meant as a suggestion? or a command?

The repentance spoken of in the Gospel accounts and the first few chapters of Acts, is a national repentance. It was a command as you say not a suggestion. But it was a command for the entire nation of Israel to repent.
Does the entire nation of the USA have to repent in order for you to be saved?

 

[Linda64]

The context is the kingdom of the heavens not eternal salvation. The kingdom is not eternal salvation. Two different things being spoken of.
Again why would Acts 16:30-31 and Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4 leave out all your steps? Either the authors where lying when they wrote that, which means the Holy Spirit is a liar, which means God is a liar, or they were telling the truth and those things aren't required for salvation.
The second is the only possible option.

Please show me one Scripture verse where confession pays the penalty for sin. It's not there. Death and shed blood alone pay the debt for sin. And believing approrpiates the blood on your behalf allowing the Holy Spirit to breathe life into your dead spirit.
Confessing Jesus as the Messiah is not eternal salvation. Eternal salvation comes from the Lamb, not the Messiah.

Show me one verse of Scripture that says calling on the name of the Lord pays the penalty for sin. It's not there. The name of the Lord doesn't save us, it is His death and shed blood that saves us.

Yeah just not the eternal salvation that you are speaking about. Again you have to get past the idea that the Bible only speaks about eternal salvation. If you never get past that idea then you are going to run into major problems with the way Scripture lays things out.
What you have described is a works based salvation. You confess, you call, you repent. Where are the works of Christ?

The repentance spoken of in the Gospel accounts and the first few chapters of Acts, is a national repentance. It was a command as you say not a suggestion. But it was a command for the entire nation of Israel to repent.
Does the entire nation of the USA have to repent in order for you to be saved?

J. Jump--

It appears that you are teaching TWO types of salvation here. You are the one who fails to give scripture references for this. If one type of salvation is eternal--what is the other type called?

There is only ONE salvation--the salvation of the soul, and that IS eternal--as our souls are eternal. How would you explain "absent from the body, present with the Lord"? (2 Cor. 5:8) What about "the soul that sinneth, it shall die"? (Ezekiel 18:20)

Your theology is very shallow and confusing. The gospel is simple--"By grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). Repentance is NOT a work--it is supernatural act of God given to a responsive sinner, who is then convicted by the Holy Spirit and turns from sin to God, trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation (which is an eternal gift). The repentance in the Gospels and in Acts was NOT a NATIONAL repentance--it was an INDIVIDUAL repentance--You would have to take the verses out of context to make them fit your teaching of NATIONAL repentance.

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (2 Timothy 2:25)

When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. (Acts 11:18)

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13)

 

[J. Jump]

It appears that you are teaching TWO types of salvation here.

Well if that helps people keep it straigtht then that is okay.

You are the one who fails to give scripture references for this.

That's just comical.

There is only ONE salvation--the salvation of the soul, and that IS eternal--as our souls are eternal.

Eternal salvation does not save the soul. We are dead in trespasses and sin. We are spiritually dead. It is our spirit that is made alive by God's grace through faith apart from our works. The Holy Spirit breathes life into our dead spirit making it alive and passing it from darkness into the marvelous light.

At that point the spirit and the soul are separated (Hebrews 4:12, Genesis 1:2-3). What fellowship hath light and darkness? None. You are saved spiritually by believing in the death and shed blood of Jesus on your behalf (Acts 16:30-31 - Romans 4).

The salvation of your soul comes into play ONLY after you are eternally saved. The salvation of the soul (James 1:21, I Peter 1:9, Hebrews 10:39 - just to name a few of the verses) is for kingdom purposes.

You can save your life (soul) now (meaning live for yourself) and lose your life (soul) in the age to come, or you can lose your life (soul) now and find life in the age to come.

Lot's wife looked back and lost her life (Hebrew word translated as life in that passage is the word for soul). She lost her life for disobedience, just as unfaithful, disobedient, non-overcoming Christians will lose their soul in the kingdom age.

Your theology is very shallow and confusing.

This theology is anything but shallow. It is the strong meat of the Word of God. I will give you that it can be confusing, as this has not been taught by many over the last few years and this is the one message that has received the most Satanic attack, starting in the first century of the church.

This is the only message that directly impacts Satan and his future.

The gospel is simple--"By grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Amen! All I have to do is believe and have faith. I wish people would keep the simple message simple.

Repentance is NOT a work--it is supernatural act of God given to a responsive sinner, who is then convicted by the Holy Spirit and turns from sin to God, trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation (which is an eternal gift).

Unfortunately you are corrupting the simple message. You just got through saying the gospel message was simple and now you are trying to add to it.

Repentance is a work of man, because it is man that changes his mind. God does not force you to change your mind. He may convict you that something is true, but you are responsible for changing your mind. It is a work and not a part of eternal salvation or Ephesians 2:8-9 would have said grace through faith and repentance not of works. But you quoted it yourself and repentance is not there.

Acts 16:30-31 has nothing about repentance in the answer. I guess they were just lying to that poor jailor and he's still unsaved today.

Romans 4 said Abraham was justified because he believed God. Nothing there about repentance. I guess Abraham is a little toasty these days huh?

The repentance in the Gospels and in Acts was NOT a NATIONAL repentance--it was an INDIVIDUAL repentance

If repentance was individual then why didn't Christ establish the kingdom? There were a number of people that repented and accepted Christ as their king. Why didn't he set up the kingdom?

Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. That was his message and John the Baptist's message. So where is the kingdom?

It wasn't set up because ALL of Israel was to have repented. It was a call to national repentance not individual repentance.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

J.Jump,

Since you believe that it is not the soul that is saved, pray tell where does the soul go when the person dies?

 

[J. Jump]

Since you believe that it is not the soul that is saved, pray tell where does the soul go when the person dies?

Well what strikes me about this question is this is the question that everyone wants answered when all is said and done. And they bank everything on this one question. If you can't answer this one question then despite all that has been shown Scripturally it can't be right, because of this one question.

The answer is I don't know. From what I can see in Scripture one of three things happens. Perhaps none of the three are true, I don't know.

One the soul and the spirit both go into the presence of the Lord at death and the body to the grave awating resurrection. Two the spirit goes to be with the Lord, the body to the grave and the soul nowhere because the soul is in the blood and no more blood no more soul. Or three the soul would go into a temporary holding place awaiting judgment, because the spirit has already been judged.

To me the second option is probably the most likely option, but it is certainly nothing that can be dogmatic.

However despite not knowing exactly what happens to the soul in no way diminishes the Truth of Scripture that says the soul can be saved or lost. There's just no way of getting around those Scriptures if we leave them in their original context and allow the context to tell us what the words mean. It just can't be done without placing contradictions on the Scriptures, which can not be there or God is a liar. And that's just not an option.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

the body to the grave and the soul nowhere because the soul is in the blood and no more blood no more soul.

Do you have scripture to back this statement?

 

[J. Jump]

Do you have scripture to back this statement?

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'

The word translated life (For the life) is the Hebrew word for soul.

Again I don't think, or at least I haven't found or been shown, the Bible gives us enough information to be dogmatic as to what "exactly" happens to us at death.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Spiritual salvation is based upon the finished work of the Lord Jesus. Where some people get confused is they fail to distinguish between spiritual salvation and the salvation of the soul, because the salvation of the soul does require works on the part of the individual, such as repentance, bearing fruit, etc.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Repentance is a work? Salvation for soul has to be worked for? Scripture please.

 

[J. Jump]

Read the book of James just to start.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Spiritual salvation is based upon the finished work of the Lord Jesus. Where some people get confused is they fail to distinguish between spiritual salvation and the salvation of the soul, because the salvation of the soul does require works on the part of the individual, such as repentance, bearing fruit, etc.

Are you saying that the spirit can go to Heaven while the soul goes to Hell?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Are you saying that the spirit can go to Heaven while the soul goes to Hell?

Why not? Jesus' did.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I find no scripture to say Jesus' soul went to hell.