Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
O.K., You understand the Greek word "dakruo", I understand the context of John 11. You say I don't understand the Greek, but I have 3 lexicons that show me the very same definition of "dakruo" and you agree, but then I show you that the word is from "dakru".
You also have in your lexicons the definition that dakruo means to "cry silently" as opposed to "wailing aloud." (G2799)
Dakruo means to shed tears, dakru means tear. The concept of dakruo is to shed tears sliently, I agree,
Ah! We're making progress. What caused the change of heart?
but the context over-rules that meaning and calls for further definiiton.
How? What is it that FORCES Jesus to be wailing instead of shedding tears silently?
W look into the synonyms to find they mean the same but with an added meaning of to wail. You come up with the other Greek word that does measn to wail, but that doesn't explain the context, so you abide by the definition of dakruo and I remain in agreement with the context.
Not exactly. That "other Greek word" specifically deliniates between wailing and dakruo. Christ crying softly is 100% in context with the story.
I understand why Jesus wept, you understand the defintion of dakruo. I show you the reason for Jesus to weep is the unbelief that will send His own to hell for failing to see Him as the Ressurrection, you see the defintion of the Greek word dakruo. I even asked a fifteen year old boy the meaning of John 11 and why Jesus wept, he said because of the doubts and unbelief of the people even though Jesus would raise Lazarus from certain death, you see the defintion of the word dakruo to mean shedding silent tears.
Even IF that is the reason why Jesus would cry, there is nothing in the context that FORCES him to be wailing and not crying softly, is there? That's the problem that you have - do you not think that lexicons would have written as another definition wailing aloud if that is what is happening? Do you not find it strange that not a single dictionary or lexicon EVER have given dakruo the definition of "wailing aloud"? What does that say to you?
I understand why Jesus wept, you understand how He wept, but your understanding is contrary to the context.
My understanding fits the context perfectly. The question for you is, "WHY is it that Jesus HAS to be wailing?"
In correalation to Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Here we have the same idea of some one being raised from the dead and yet there are those who die and go to hell because of the unbelief of the Ressurrection of the dead and Jesus being Him.
So? He's not wailing when he is saying this, is he? Why does he have to be wailing in John 11?
The identical context is given due to the
unbelief ofthe rich man why he was in torments in hell, where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
He is weeping because he is experiencing torture, not because he is sad about unbelief. Apples and oranges.
The indentical level of emotion due to unbelief is expressed. Again I understand why and you say you understand Greek. I don't believeyour understanding is exactly correct for every application and you will never convince me because I understand why and you understand the singular definition of a Greek word when the entire time the context never agrees with the defintion you give or anyone else has given.
Again, what PROOF is there that the only kind of crying Jesus woudl have been capable of in John 11 is wailing?
We are left with the alternative to conclude that the word dakruo is not by mistake, but the root word dakru has synonyms that give further detail to defintion than you are willing to understand and thereby you fail in your defintion.
In the Inuit language, there are 9 different words for snow. All of them are synonyms. However, there is a difference between the word for dry snow, the word for wet snow, and the word for powdery snow. The Inuits use the word that they mean. Synonyms do not mean exactly the same thing, which is why the lexicons go out of their way to show that dakruo doesn't mean the same as wailing.
You have said time and time again I don't understand, but when I consider all the facts, I am left with the understanding it is you that doesn't understand. Sorry, but that's just taters and beans.
Again, you claim understanding, but HOW is it that Jesus HAS to be wailing here and not just crying softly. Because, as you have agreed, the natural definition for dakruo is crying softly, you must have a strong argument against the definition to prove otherwise. What is that argument?
aren't we, Quick. Spirit?
. But 16 year old kids generally don't gravitate to 19th century hymns sung with a piano (and perhaps a church organ that is slightly out of tune with the piano
