Parents Who Spank Being Made Criminals

[mcdirector]

The thing I keep coming back to is that discipline has to happen everywhere we are with the children. Spanking stops fairly early because children start to reason. The behaviours that have been mentioned don't go on forever and because they are associated with young children, they have to be taken care of quickly.


Well, they should stop early for the most part UNLESS they aren't taken care of early and are allowed to continue -- then we have real problems on our hands.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Standing Firm, your scriptures seem to apply to adult children as opposed to young ones.

Public=anywhere someone outside your immediate family can see how you are "abusing" your poor innocent child

Private=anywhere no one outside your immediate family can see how you are disciplining your child.

Webdog, you gonna tell me how you would have dealt with my two examples.

By the way, a spanking in my house rarely means more than 3 or 4 swats of my hand, a belt or a switch. My personal favorite when they were younger was the switch. Don't know what it was about a switch, but they hated the very touch of it. Didn't even have to sting. Just touching their skin was enough. It's never been about the pain of spanking here. They simply know that they have completely displeased me if I decide they need a spanking. Life doesn't get much worse.

The Scripture does not say whether the son is young or old... it just says the son is rebellious. Think about it, just because it says the son is a drunkard does not put it in a certain age bracket, i.e., an adult.

I can point you to neighborhoods all along the east coast where children as young as 8 are drunkards and addicted to drugs.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Did you explain to the child why you were spanking him in public, or why you spank at all? If the child feels shamed in public, that can undo all of the training and nurturing up to that point.

Webdog, every spanking in this house starts with the words, "Do you understand why you are in trouble?". That is their chance to head off disaster. There have been times when I changed my mind about spanking them and together we came up with a different solution based on "if this stops_____ then it's dealt with, but the very next time you ____ we coming back to having to have a spanking."

Not only, but spankings are always followed by discussions after the child is calm and the incident fully settled about what led up to the spanking and how one can be avoided the next time.

I promise you, when I stopped that car next to a "switch tree" my child knew exactly what the problem was.

When we went into that bathroom I had told my child in firm tones what he had done/was still doing and what I planned to do to stop it. He had all the way from the checkout counter to the restroom to stop kicking and screaming.

You know, I have really good kids. These spanking were some of the few they ever recieved, but, there for a while, going out in public was getting to be a problem. You can't send a kid to there room or give them a time-out while you are in a grocery store. It just doesn't work.

These instances were power plays, btw. Every kid has a time that defines for him/her Mom or Dad's authority. Some kids push and push, looking for just such an event that tells them they can go this far but no further. The limits at home were already well defined. But public behavior, well there might just be some wiggle room in that event. These instances proved decisively for mine that Mom was in control in public as well as at home.

If the child feels shamed in public, that can undo all of the training and nurturing up to that point.

Hmmm, sorry, I disagree with this on it's face. Shaming a child for disobedience isn't likely to anything to a child training or nurturing. Likely, he already has an idea what he is doing is wrong, but he's waiting for the parent to set the limit.

Shaming(public or private) a child for accidents, ignorance or events outside the child's control may have the effect you say. A good parent wouldn't be spanking for these at the start with.

 

[annsni]

Some perfectly wonderful Christian families are blessed with some perfectly wonderful little angelic children who never ever give their parents a minute of trouble.

Some perfectly wonderful Christian families are blessed with some terribly rebellious children who will challenge their every word, move, desire from the moment they pop out of the womb. I'm not saying they have to be spanked every moment of every day to beat them into submission, but I am saying that circumstances arise and it is not the state's place to remove the circumstance and the discipline of the circumstance from the parent.

Some perfectly wonderful families have BOTH kind of kids. Our family has 4 very different children. My oldest was textbook. She wanted to please and just an angry look was enough to break her heart. She was spanked a few times but generally was a wonderful kid.

Our second was our tester/strong willed kid. I remember thinking that I was abusing her because all I seemed to do was spank her. She'd go ahead and do something wrong while looking at me to see what I'd do. I'd go over, tell her "No" - getting eye to eye with her so I was sure she heard me. She'd then go ahead and do it again to see what I'd do. I'd spank her, she'd cry, then do it again! Honestly, this could go on 4-6 times before she'd finally get the message that she was not to do that.

Child 3 has been a very easy kid and much like #1. He wants to please and has been spanked about 3X in his 7 years.

#4 has been wonderful until recently. She's 5 and has begun pushing some boundaries so we're cracking down on her a bit. No more asking more than once if I know she heard me and has responded. She's also throwing some good two year old tantrums and that is resulting in going to her room where she can be upset but not affect the rest of the family. She's another one who has not been spanked much at all but she's making up for it right now. I know this is a short stage and we'll get through it fine (the benefit of having been there done that. LOL)

The key to discipline in public is to be sure of yourself, firm and NOT yielding no matter how much easier it would be to just give them the piece of candy. My kids have learned that a fuss out in public will result in severe penalties at home. If they threw a tantrum in public when they were toddlers, I'd pick them up and walk right out to the car and make them sit and wait. After 10 minutes, we'd go back in to finish the shopping because, after all, I HAD to shop - it's not like I was there for the heck of it! They all learned and are wonderful when we go out.

If you work with your kids at home, and respond well with those first tests in public, I really think that you will not have to spank your kids in public. But then again, my second child was the one who I spanked in public twice. LOL! She was just the tough one but at 15 now, she's a great kid. Thank you Lord for being so gracious! LOL

 

[Revmitchell]

How did you get that from my answer

Did notice the ? at the end of the sentence?

The rod IS MEANT FOR PRIVATE. It is between a parent and child IN PRIVATE. It is not a show of authority for the public to witness. One can address the behavior without public use of the rod. A "we'll deal with this when we get home" will do wonders, or other means of discipline. The rod is not meant for ALL discipline.

So no scripture?

 

[Revmitchell]

mcdirector backed back in while you were typing Rev Mitchell

Glad to see you back.:type:

 

[Revmitchell]

...so you are reading into the texts dealing with the rod that they must then be for public use? That's eisegesis.

The entire point of using the rod is to get to the heart of a child...not to curb behavior. If spanking is done to get a certain response from a child in regards to behavior, it is not being applied correctly. It should always be done in love, and I don't see how doing this in public can accomplish that. It is meant for private use, to bring the child back under the protection that God promised if they obey their parents.

Children will not always understand the difference between the heart change and behavioral change. It may take some years of controlling the behavior change before they reach the maturity level to make a heart change. Your view is unrealistic and fails to understand how the maturity of the child comes into play.

 

[Revmitchell]

Some perfectly wonderful Christian families are blessed with some perfectly wonderful little angelic children who never ever give their parents a minute of trouble.

Some perfectly wonderful Christian families are blessed with some terribly rebellious children who will challenge their every word, move, desire from the moment they pop out of the womb. I'm not saying they have to be spanked every moment of every day to beat them into submission, but I am saying that circumstances arise and it is not the state's place to remove the circumstance and the discipline of the circumstance from the parent.

Nor is it abuse. (not that you suggested such)

 

[J.Wayne]

My youngest will be 17 on the 21st of this month and if I felt he needed to be spanked, you'd better believe his behind would not be spared. And I could care less what any nosy busy body had to say about it!

 

[Joe]

Until age 4, our son was a tyrant, but he had health problems also. After he had an operation, his behavior suddenly became 100% better. I felt bad for spanking him when his behavior was likely due to adverse health problems. He was a toddler.

I don't believe our son has EVER been disciplined in public. But in our home, acting up in public results in a much harsher discipline than private. He has been taught this.

He is 17 now, and a really good person. No behavior problems, gets great grades, is planning for college. So there you go...

A few times when a man was disciplining his son in the bathroom, I stood on an adjacent toilet and looked into the stall to see what was going on. One man I told to calm down and come out. Then I took his child aside to see if that was his father.

Blood curdling screams from a tiny child amongst any violence inflicted behind closed doors needs to be checked into. Imo, it's ignorant not to open the door to ensure the child is safe. Some kids have been maimed by sickos because others ignored their pleas for help. We need to go into an adjacent stall (even if it means cutting in line) to stand on the toilet and view the situation. Of course, be really polite to the parent as they are likely just disciplining their kids. A good parent will probably appreciate your interest in ensuring their child is safe.

Corporal discipline shouldn't be so urgent it needs to be shared amongst the public. A mother spanking her little Johnny and airing to the world all he did wrong is not "a group thing". It's private. With that, good parents have disciplined their children in public so I don't mean to condemn them.

As webdog pointed out, people DO get their children taken away unnecessarily for spankings so love your kids enough not to take the chance. The bible says Fathers are not to offend their children. Think of how the Lord would feel if our own actions got our children taken from us, and placed with strangers (who could harm them- not all Foster Parents are honorable)

Note: I live in California so maybe culture plays a role in our views.

 

[webdog]

Children will not always understand the difference between the heart change and behavioral change. It may take some years of controlling the behavior change before they reach the maturity level to make a heart change. Your view is unrealistic and fails to understand how the maturity of the child comes into play.

I disagree, since the behavior flows from the heart. Both can..and should...be controlled at the same time. Controlling the behavior is putting a band aid on a severed limb. the rod is meant to nurture the child's heart, not control behavior. Behavior in public needs to be handled differently than the rod. If the rod is used to control behavior, that tends to lead to abuse since it is often done in anger.

 

[webdog]

So no scripture?

Is there scripture that states we shouldn't touch a hot stove? Some things should be common sense. I would hope public spankings (or lack thereof) in the age we live in should also be common sense, unless you have a desire to lose your children.

 

[mcdirector]

Some perfectly wonderful families have BOTH kind of kids.

ha! I know the reason I could give such clear cut examples is . . .

well, you guessed it!

 

[Revmitchell]

Is there scripture that states we shouldn't touch a hot stove? Some things should be common sense. I would hope public spankings (or lack thereof) in the age we live in should also be common sense, unless you have a desire to lose your children.

Your comparison fails to be equal in nature and not valid. Parents do not lose their children for public discipline when it is needed.

 

[webdog]

Your comparison fails to be equal in nature and not valid. Parents do not lose their children for public discipline when it is needed.

I beg to differ. Child protective services removes the child first, investigates later.

 

[Revmitchell]

I beg to differ. Child protective services removes the child first, investigates later.

Over zealous government agents are not the norm.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Over zealous government agents are not the norm.

I have to agree. I will recognize that there are some states/cities where spanking is frowned on more than others.

Since our school system still paddles, I guess you can tell that spanking isn't going to get you into much trouble.

Still, a kid that goes and tells school administration that mom/dad beat him last night and shows signs of bruises is going get looked at.

Other places, a kid that says the same thing and shows no sign of bruising may also get looked into. It can be scarey.

I'm a hardhead though. When one of my kids came home from school with a flyer designed to tell abused children where to call from help, we sat down as a family and discussed what abuse was, when it was appropriate to call for help and what would happen if they called and lied about being abused. Notice the italics. My children understand that if they should make such a call, they will have to live with the consquences. And I've made sure they understand what those consequences are.

I am not going to live in fear of the "authorities" coming to take my child away because I've disciplined them. I'm much more afraid of what God will have to say if I don't discipline them.

 

[Joe]

Since our school system still paddles, I guess you can tell that spanking isn't going to get you into much trouble.

unbelievable
Sorry for the numerous questions but it would be interesting to know how they get away with this-
Who does the paddling? Are the parents present in the room? Does the school need written permission from the children's parents? If you refuse to allow your child to be struck, what happens? Do your chilldren attend this school system?

Still, a kid that goes and tells school administration that mom/dad beat him last night and shows signs of bruises is going get looked at.

Well I certainly hope so. I would assume he is "looked at" by CPS, or possibly the designated school nurse prior to making the call to CPS. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Other places, a kid that says the same thing and shows no sign of bruising may also get looked into. It can be scarey.

Mayget looked into? Who decides which kids are worth the schools trouble? OR if you mean CPS, why would your CPS department choose to look at one case over another? By law they are to investigate all reported cases of abuse.

I'm a hardhead though. When one of my kids came home from school with a flyer designed to tell abused children where to call from help, we sat down as a family and discussed what abuse was, when it was appropriate to call for help and what would happen if they called and lied about being abused.

Wow, I don't know what to say. I bet if a CPS worker heard this, it would certainly be suspicious. Did you have a bad experience with CPS?

Notice the italics. My children understand that if they should make such a call, they will have to live with the consquences. And I've made sure they understand what those consequences are.

You have mentioned this again. I will be upfront, I discourage threatening your child in that manner. CPS is there to keep children safe. If you are raising them half way decently, and I am sure you are, they are probably not going to call and lie to CPS.

I am not going to live in fear of the "authorities" coming to take my child away because I've disciplined them.

Living in fear of CPS? hmmm.....

I'm much more afraid of what God will have to say if I don't discipline them.

Unless I missed something, no one has said not to discipline our children. To be honest, you hardly see kids acting up in stores here. Imo, parents here are either against spanking or spank very little. They certainly know how to parent. Thank god I live here amongst them to learn, I wasn't very good at it.

 

[Revmitchell]

There is a real and legitimate reason to have some amount of fear of government agencies that look into family matters. Many of the agents that work for these agencies have very personal and liberal ideologies that drive their investigations. Some deem any form of corporal punishment as abuse. And while they may not have the law they need to act against that they will work to make the situation appear what it is not so as to remove the children from a situation where corporal punishment is conducted. These agencies seem to have very little oversight with way to much authority.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Young children need to be corrected immediately. Waiting is ineffective and would leave the poor thing wondering what he/she had done wrong when the discipline was actually done.

Well said, I know it has been true with my three.