Parents Who Spank Being Made Criminals

[standingfirminChrist]

Are you really a pastor, because some of your advice and attitude is quite puzzling. I would think a pastor should be able to back with Scripture the allowance of others outside the home in disciplining your children, considering pastors do counsel families...

Scripture has already been given to show elders were allowed to discipline the children. The parents took the child to the elders and the elders passed judgment.

 

[webdog]

It appears you lack the ability to carry on a conversation or debate at the adult level. And your post has been reported.

There was no attack at all...it was a question posed to you, as your attitude and wisdom raised more questions for me than answers. You do not back your answers with Scripture...something I would assume a pastor would do quite often. I have no idea why it was deleted by LadyEagle, as it was not an attack.

 

[webdog]

Scripture has already been given to show elders were allowed to discipline the children. The parents took the child to the elders and the elders passed judgment.

We are not under the Law.

 

[Joe]

Imo, we can't compare Christian Elders disciplining children to a secular government organization such as schools discipling children. Elders are Christians operating within Gods will. The school system (a secular organization) is not usually acting within God's will. Their power to handle our biblical parental responsibilities should be limited.

I feel strongly that...

As Christians, we do not automatically hand over our God given parental responsibilities to others destined to hell,thus believing their word over our own children (of whom are more likely to be saved than the general population) Of course, common sense dictates it depends upon the child's age and the situation at hand. If it came down to it, our 17 year old son's word comes before his teachers. He has earned that.
Of course, all parents look into matters completely before making a decision.

Regarding spanking....

I recall a "birthday spank" in kindergarden which was, to say the least, a rush.
At that instant, I planned on experiencing that feeling again. My Teacher become the prettiest woman on earth in just a few seconds. I felt "in love" with her for years afterwards. The spank could have been hard or soft. I remember my sister being able to experience *that* at around the same age (5 years old). She remembers it being about that time also.

When one changes a baby boy's diaper, a visual change hard to miss suddenly occurs due to sensations. We must keep the diaper covering baby boys at all times or one could get a surprise in the face.

This is the normal development process for children. Or it can be if we don't screw it up for them.
Though, not everyone will carry negative ramifications into adulthood.

A "sickness", once incited, is contagious. Kids teach other kids these bad things, and they become candidates for pedophilles. Much of this we learned in foster parent classes.

The more a child loves a parent and depends for life upon the parent, the more problematic intense negative emotions aroused by spankings may become. The appropriate emotion when someone deliberately tortures us is hatred. But for a child to consciously experience hatred for a beloved parent would create an impossible double-bind.

Webdog has a solid, biblical understanding of child discipline




A well known reputable website which explains this in detail

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/43/1687_51049

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So the parents who took their son to the elders of the city for judgment were wrong? They should have gone to someone else for secular advice?

Wow.

 

[Joe]

Kids get mad and lie about their parents all the time. The school isn't about to start a whole CPS investigation in the absence of any real evidence. Sexual accusations get kicked up not only to CPS but also to law enforcement and are treated very very carefully.

It happens here, but certainly not "all the time". Sad to hear that, but it's better to be safe than sorry. The school has an obligation as a mandated reporter (I believe) to call CPS in suspected abuse cases. If they do not call when the signs were there, they could be held liable (I believe) if the child is hurt.

Okay Joe, just what about explaining what abuse is to a kid who isn't abused and has never experienced such is suspicious? Why would one not want a child to understand the implications of making a false report to CPS?

Imo, your post was worded more like threats to your kids of calling CPS and lying. Of course it's just a post, not how you likely spoke to them so that's fine. Forget it, could be my faulty perception of that portion.
That is something abusive parents do (not saying you are) but it is VERY common. To my knowledge, it is one of the many interview questions by a Social Worker. It's called "planting". Making all calls to CPS seem "bad" or not worth the risk for the child to call in for help because the call may be deemed false buy CPS. Then they will be in trouble. Indoctrination. It's like a puzzle, all of the pieces need to be there before they act upon anything.

And no, I haven't have a bad experience with CPS. CPS here is very family oriented (to much so, in my opinion) to the extent that children are sometimes returned to parents who, in my opinion only, shouldn't be allowed a pet much less a child.

I think we can agree that the less involvement governmental authorities have in our lives, the better. Especially in california, we are a major police state. They seem to be taking our parental rights away each day. One benefit to living in Alabama over Calif...

If I were you, I would get myself down to my kid's school to ensure they do not lay a hand on my kids for any reason. Be nice, be friends with them all, yet stay firm.

If you taught your kids in a Christian manner and/or with solid values, they WILL NEED to take a stand at some point if it's a public school. Being physically struck for doing the right thing is not acceptable. And...No one ought to be touching them in that manner, via a paddle or their bare hands for any reason. That kind of touching or fixation on those area's is reserved for marriage.

You are likely fully capable to take care of your own children's behavior. If not, let the school kick them out. Our son was suspended twice, once for refusing to "wrestle" with other teenagers by a Substitute PE teacher (roll on the floor on top of one another trying to physically hold each other to the floor) and another time by going against a Teacher promoting the gay agenda in class. Both times a portion of the class backed him up so it was a "mass suspension"
Teaching them well will pay off.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If the child is rebellious, especially to any authority figure (and that includes teachers), the child needs a good paddling.

And there is nothing wrong with a teacher applying a paddle to a child's rear end when the child is rebellious.

To teach a child that he can be rebellious to teachers is instilling in that child that which is contrary to the Word of God.

Hebrews 13 says we are to Obey them that have rule over us... that includes teachers.

Romans 13 states 'Let every soul be subject to the higher powers.

Those children cannot rule themselves. They are too young and they will be rebellious... especially when parents tell them junk like 'The teacher is not allowed to paddle you.' That opens the door for rebellion.

And rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.

 

[J.Wayne]

We are not under the Law.

Quite interesting....So God is a liar?

 

[sag38]

It is the exception to the rule, and that by a long shot, for a teacher to lie about the actions of a child in his or her class room. 99% of the time it's the child who was misbehaving. Yet, in today's world, parents side with their little precious who would never do anything wrong. And, such children know that their ignoramus parents will side with them. "My baby would never lie to me." Get real.

When I was in the fifth grade the boy next to me was showing off. But to my surprise the teacher sent me out in the hall. And, this time, it wasn't me showing off. That night she called my mother and I got a spanking. What a terrible injustice! How dare that teacher pick on me. At least that's what I thought at the time. But, as an adult I now realize that there were lots of other times that I gave that poor teacher "h*^%$." Plus, I remember my mother telling me. "Even if you weren't talking, I'm sure there were other times you were giving that teacher a hard time. They don't call a parent unless there is a real problem" And, my mom was right. Sorry I don't have a Bible verse to back this up. I don't need one.

 

[webdog]

Quite interesting....So God is a liar?

Do you keep all of the OT Law, Wayne?

 

[menageriekeeper]

You are likely fully capable to take care of your own children's behavior. If not, let the school kick them out. Our son was suspended twice, once for refusing to "wrestle" with other teenagers by a Substitute PE teacher (roll on the floor on top of one another trying to physically hold each other to the floor) and another time by going against a Teacher promoting the gay agenda in class. Both times a portion of the class backed him up so it was a "mass suspension"
Teaching them well will pay off.

A little lesson in civil disobedience, huh Joe?

Seriously though, this is one advantage of living in Alabama. Multiple suspensions over an event of this nature would have been thoroughly questioned and most likely not allowed to stand. The substitute wouldn't have been invited back and the homosexual teacher would have been given, shall we say, "sensitivity" training. We have more gays in our school system than one would think(all the way up to asst. superintendent). Some folk are even surprised to find just who is gay. It's not that they keep it a secret, but that so long as they are living their lives and not pushing an agenda, we have a live and let live policy in our community. They push an agenda and the vestiges of our "good 'ol boy society" finds a reason to dismiss them or make life hard enough that they'll leave for greener pastures. Even our "flaming" gay teachers don't push an agenda.

And, such children know that their ignoramus parents will side with them. "My baby would never lie to me." Get real.

I have to agree. And I'll go a step further. Any parent who says such a thing is blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. Every child will lie to their parents if they think it will benefit them. To ignore this idea is to ignore the clear teaching of scripture. (foolishness is bound in the heart of a child, but the rod will drive it far from them. Pro 22:15 <Cindi's paraphrase>)

I was asked if parents gave signed permission for the school to use corporal punishment. I said no, but upon further reflection, I think I was wrong in stating that. At the beginning of each year every parent is given a packet of information. Part of that is a handbook listing what punishments will be handed out for this or that misbehavior. How each misbehavior is classed (drugs are classed differently than dress code violations). Parents must sign that they have read and understand the rules. That could possibly be contrued as giving permission for corporal punishment. I'm not really sure.

I am sure that a parent could opt out, if they wanted as more than one punishment is listed for each offense. A note on the signature page would be all it would take.

LOL, my youngest's teacher this year got the bright idea to put out a similar behavior note, regarding homework. The note basically said that "the parent understands that by signing this note that they and their child may be required to attend morning or afternoon detention should your child not complete homework assignments on time." I didn't sign it.

Eventually the teacher got around to telling me she needed that one signed as well. I said no.

"Well why not????!!"

Because you have the authority, given to you by me, to punish my child for not doing her work, but you will not tell me how to handle things in my own home, nor will you tell me what to do with my time. Homework is the responsibility of my child. If there is a problem, I'll deal with it. But I will not spend time sitting in your classroom as a solution and you have no authority to force me to do so."

I had one surprised teacher and she learned that day not to ask me a question in public if she didn't want the public to hear the answer. "Oh, well we just won't worry about that then" was her reply. Other parents in the room had merely signed the thing without ever really reading it and were surprised at what the note actually said.

Webdog pay attention here, cause you were the one who said something about punishing a child twice for the same offense.

If my child did have to stay after school (or come in early), because they disobeyed the teacher, there would be additional punishment at home. Why? Because in disobeying the teacher they have also disobeyed me. So they deal with the teacher first and then they deal with me. I gaurentee dealing with me is worse, because I intend to deal with my child in such as way that the teacher will not have a problem in the future.

I will tell you now, if your child gets the idea that you believe the it's the teacher/schools job to deal with them while they are at school and you don't back up that teacher your child will cause a great deal more trouble. This is part of the problem in today's schools. Parents say: "He's your problem when he's at school" then turn right around when the kid gets in trouble and say "How dare you punish my innocent child?" I am not going to be that parent. The schools have enough of those, I see them every day I walk into one of my kids schools.

The teacher gets the benefit of the doubt first. They are the adult and the authority. Does that mean you don't pay attention to your child's protests of innocence? Of course not. If a parent is involved, makes a showing at the school, gets to know the kids and teachers, that parent will get a good idea of what is going on in the school and therefore be in a much better position to make a wise decision. But doing that requires more time and effort than merely dropping Jonny at the door.

Sag38, along the same lines as your mother, I regularly tell my older two that if they get 6 am detention (a favorite punishment for dress code and chewing gum violations) that they had better put on their walking shoes cause I'm not getting up that early! :laugh:

 

[Joe]

A little lesson in civil disobedience, huh Joe?

Um, no....did you read what I wrote? huh Cindi?
Could be difficult for us discuss this because we would need to do SO much typing to understand one another. Your school district is clearly more conservative than ours. You have a dress code? Our teachers & students often dress inappropriately, and show inappropriate movies., So I HAVE to pay attention. My wife is more on this type of stuff than I am. It's best to help the Teachers out, they have a difficult job. Some are wonderful, I admire them.
Yet even the Teachers who are nuts deserve respect. Just because a Teacher is out of line with a student doesn't mean the child can take liberties to make the situation worse. School prepares kids for life, we all have to deal with difficult people. Kids need to learn to deal with difficult people, including Teachers.
Here's a really stupid, kinda funny one that gets so many of the teenagers going. Too many kids are suspended due to this one Spanish Teacher antagonizing the kids. He obviously hates children. He wears a dead animal on his shoulder at all times. It's a beaver or something, maybe stuffed. Some kids are vegetarians, the others are likely just tired of looking at it. This Teacher called our home once, going off like a banchy in the message he left. So there was no doubt in hearing it that discussing this problem between with him and our son would be impossible. (The jerk later gave him a B when he deserved an A) Anyway, our Son started "messing" with him to get him back. Kept sitting in his chair (he teachers chair) and wouldn't get up. I didn't have much patience with our son, it's childish and unnecessary.

This teacher has tenure, so we're stuck. He's know as a nut. You can't even personally threaten him, nor would you want to, he's just a mental case. We have a schizophrenic family member so I don't see the need to get upset at mentally ill people. Our son knows he shouldn't tease mentally ill people.
Our schools have no dress code, this is often reflected in the way the Teachers dress. Talk about brazen women! And the single moms who help out aren't always better in appearance.
Oh, and our middle school teacher has, or maybe still has, bright purple hair. Add that to her nose rings, and she looks ridiculous.

About the wresting...it's instigating violence (fighting) between kids. This should be optional, at least. We try to teach non violence, though it's me who has a harder time with this concept. . There are openly gay kids, so rolling around on a floor with a few of them can be pretty embarrassing, especially for boys.

It sounds like your schools are much better. So imo, that has to play into how you handle situations.

Kids just can't go along with all of the sickness forced in schools and violate every rule the Lord has in place for their well- being.

There are some WONDERFUL teachers but it doesn't null the fact that kids need to learn to stand firm for the Lord in their values at an early age. We do not watch R rated movies with nudity in our home but our school shows these films. So yes, if my son doesn't walk right out of class while a film like this is being shown, I WILL PUNISH him bigtime. I don't look at the stuff, neither should he. The Teacher will regret it too...

Ever seen "One flew over the Coo Coos nest w/Jack Nicholson?" I saw it when I was a teenager and can STILL recall one morbid description to female's genitalia in the movie made by Jack Nicholson, even after all of these years. I pass on watching ANY movie with him in it. Yet my son watched this movie in a class just last month. I have heard of worse movies being shown in school-
Multiple suspensions mean nothing in our school in and of themselves. Any kid not experiencing them is being indoctrinated by Satan. I pray for them to become stronger to take a stand.

In our state, there are designated funds to push the gay agenda onto the children, and they get extremely graphic. A visual orge experienced by kids and teachers alike. The kids must stand against this with their words, or just walk out immediately. Say nothing, no explanation needed.

I have to agree. And I'll go a step further. Any parent who says such a thing is blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. Every child will lie to their parents if they think it will benefit them.

If this is in reference to what I said (not by you, by sag) then my words are clearly being twisted. I didn't state my son would NEVER lie to me. I said he doesn't lie to me, so of course, I believe him. Why not? How sad that other parents must question their kids like that. But mine is older, so age plays into it.
Suspect them as liars, misbelieve them, and they have no incentive to do right by telling the truth.

I was asked if parents gave signed permission for the school to use corporal punishment. I said no, but upon further reflection, I think I was wrong in stating that. At the beginning of each year every parent is given a packet of information.

Go now, be a good Mamma and sign it to protect your children from ultimate humiliation, don't risk a stranger with wandering hands or someone getting their jollies off of your small child. If they look at them seductively (erotically), that could be enough to scar them.
A spanking by a stranger, an ungodly person, will only hurt. If they are acting up in school, imo, Your husband (with you, or you) need to take control of YOUR kids.Teachers have the right to do their jobs without disruptive, unruly students.

LOL, my youngest's teacher this year got the bright idea to put out a similar behavior note, regarding homework. The note basically said that "the parent understands that by signing this note that they and their child may be required to attend morning or afternoon detention should your child not complete homework assignments on time." I didn't sign it.

I would have no problem signing that form. Book em! Just kidding

Eventually the teacher got around to telling me she needed that one signed as well. I said no.

"Well why not????!!"
Because you have the authority, given to you by me, to punish my child for not doing her work, but you will not tell me how to handle things in my own home, nor will you tell me what to do with my time. Homework is the responsibility of my child. If there is a problem, I'll deal with it. But I will not spend time sitting in your classroom as a solution and you have no authority to force me to do so."

That's funny :smilewinkgrin:

I had one surprised teacher and she learned that day not to ask me a question in public if she didn't want the public to hear the answer."Oh, well we just won't worry about that then" was her reply. Other parents in the room had merely signed the thing without ever really reading it and were surprised at what the note actually said.

You're keeping them on their toes

If my child did have to stay after school (or come in early), because they disobeyed the teacher, there would be additional punishment at home. Why? Because in disobeying the teacher they have also disobeyed me. So they deal with the teacher first and then they deal with me. I gaurentee dealing with me is worse, because I intend to deal with my child in such as way that the teacher will not have a problem in the future.

I think your kids are younger than mine? Might be a good idea. I can't remember what it is like to have younger kids.Pre- alzeheimers?

I will tell you now, if your child gets the idea that you believe the it's the teacher/schools job to deal with them while they are at school and you don't back up that teacher your child will cause a great deal more trouble. This is part of the problem in today's schools. Parents say: "He's your problem when he's at school" then turn right around when the kid gets in trouble and say "How dare you punish my innocent child?" I am not going to be that parent. The schools have enough of those, I see them every day I walk into one of my kids schools.

Agreed 100%

The teacher gets the benefit of the doubt first. They are the adult and the authority. Does that mean you don't pay attention to your child's protests of innocence? Of course not. If a parent is involved, makes a showing at the school, gets to know the kids and teachers, that parent will get a good idea of what is going on in the school and therefore be in a much better position to make a wise decision. But doing that requires more time and effort than merely dropping Jonny at the door.

Our son gets the benefit of the doubt first, he is honorable and has done nothing to make us unbelieve him.. But that's here nor there because I am sure we can agree, we must look into the situation. Generally, whatever answering machine "message" a teacher leaves is generally untrue, and you have to talk patiently, ask questions gently to get them to tell you the whole story. They want to leave you with only "what your child did to them". I don't buy that out of the blue "my son did this or that" to them.
When you get them calm, they have always told me the whole story.

 

[menageriekeeper]

LOL Joe, I have kids from elementary school to high school! And I only have 3! I some how managed to space mine exactly 3 school years apart. So last year I ended up with one in elementary, one in middle and one in high school! It took me 30 minutes to get 'em all where they were going in the mornings! Afternoons weren't much better.

don't risk a stranger with wandering hands or someone getting their jollies off of your small child.

Here's another Alabama advantage: the principals of the elementary and high schools and the vice principal of the middle school as well as the superintendent of the district and several teachers from each school are all members of my church. That is something you can't do in a place with a larger population.

My poor children can't get away with anything. They think I know everyone in town. That's not really true, but it won't hurt my kids to think so. Up until last year, I walked into the elementary school more often than not. Anything one of mine did, good or bad, made it to my ears before my poor children ever got to tell me about it. My son, who was always into something, would just look at me and know I knew. Poor thing never had a chance.

 

[Joe]

Here's another Alabama advantage: the principals of the elementary and high schools and the vice principal of the middle school as well as the superintendent of the district and several teachers from each school are all members of my church. That is something you can't do in a place with a larger population.

Um, that's much worse. Places them in more danger because you will believe the good christian Principal, Superintendent etc...over their words. Something you have already indicated. When in reality, a real Christian man KNOWS better than to do this inappropriate touching to a small child who is not their own. Men know these things more than women do.
Not a good situation imo. Very very bad
Better check out that link in my post, it's in this thread a page or so back.
Go sign the form pretty please...with sugar on top....

My poor children can't get away with anything. They think I know everyone in town. That's not really true, but it won't hurt my kids to think so. Up until last year, I walked into the elementary school more often than not. Anything one of mine did, good or bad, made it to my ears before my poor children ever got to tell me about it. My son, who was always into something, would just look at me and know I knew. Poor thing never had a chance.

LOL I'll buy you a whistle to wear around your neck

 

[Joe]

I can almost guarantee you all will NEVER allow your school system to spank your child after clicking this Christian website link

Scroll to the bottom for all of the news reports & expert quotes




http://www.parentinginjesusfootsteps.org/sxdangers.html

UNBELIEVABLE :tear: If you ever read anything, READ THIS

 

[standingfirminChrist]

All that is is trash from people who do not want to follow Biblical mandates of discipline.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

But what you would not so readily believe upon my affirmation, was that there are persons who are stimulated to venery by strokes of rods, and worked up into a flame of lust by blows... A strange instance what a power the force of education has in grafting inveterate ill habits on our morals...
Johann Heinrich Meibom, physician, 1629

What a crock. A child receives sexual pleasure from discipline?

Surely you don't believe this idiocy, Joe.

The Word of God says if we spare the rod we hate our children. I'll stick with the Word of God rather than idiots who teach contrary to it.

The rod is speaking of physical punishment. It is more than taking away something the child likes, more than time out, more than no friends over or no telephone.

Remember, they did not have those things in Bible days... well, maybe friends. But still, the applying of the rod was commanded by God Himself. Who is man to try to override God's commands? Does he think he knows better than God?

I don't think so.

These articles from this website are nothing but people with trash on their minds. If they were following Biblical principles and commands, they would not think such foolishness as that which they posted on that page.
​

 

[Benjamin]

Our son was suspended twice, once for refusing to "wrestle" with other teenagers by a Substitute PE teacher (roll on the floor on top of one another trying to physically hold each other to the floor)

Hmm, I wonder where he got the opinion that the most physically demanding, highly disciplined sport I have ever known, by which the training has benefited me life long with the knowledge and ability to maintain a quality of physical condition setting me noticibly apart from my average peers (still at almost 50 ) was nothing more than a degrading roll on the floor?

 

[Joe]

Are you talking about me? I think you may have misread my post. In the future, would you mind asking me to clarify?

If so, how did you get such a "generalized statement" like that from my post?

Btw, I used to be on the wresting team in high school.

 

[sag38]

A paddling by a teacher at school is not going to destroy a child. I got a whole bunch of them in school. I laughed at the teachers who only gave pats and respected the ones who would light you up. I remember in ninth grade, JoeT lit me up and again I wasn't the one talking. Oh my goodness, I'm destroyed for life. My tender ego was damaged beyond repair. See how sarcastic I am. Its caused by all the paddlings I got. This bunk about damaging the ego of some little angel is part of the reason that our schools are in such a mess today. Life isn't always "fair." Now that I did learn and I'm glad I did.

Oh, and trying to associate sexual problems with paddling. That's the stupidest thing that I've ever read. Somebody evidently paid too much attention in psychology 101 when the professor taught about Freud.