Part II: Biblical Doctrine of Election

[Van]

The election spoken of was contained in the Promise to Abraham. A gentile seed of specific believers, written in the book of life from eternity.

Your premise is fiction. I supported the biblical view with specific scripture.

1) I addressed the individual Election before time of Christ as Redeemer

2) I addressed the corporate Election before time of those who Christ will redeem, believers as determined by God.

3) Names are written (as others are not written) in the Lamb's book of life since creation, not before.

Please address the biblical doctrine of Election

 

[Van]

I'm not following this thing.

God Did not, Does Not, and Would never have Had "Righteousness" Inherent withing Himself, apart from Jesus Christ Having Lived Perfectly under The Universal Moral Law AND Obtaining Righteousness, for His children, at The Cross.

More off topic deflection. Folks just read Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-24. God credits our faith (or not) as righteousness.
We obtain salvation by grace through or on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

 

[agedman]

More off topic deflection. Folks just read Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-24. God credits our faith (or not) as righteousness.
We obtain salvation by grace through or on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

Readers, the “crediting our faith” statement can be misleading if one thinks It is innate condition of humankind.

Does not Paul state, “Faith (is by, comes, from) ...” (Romans 10:17)

If one leaves out the “added” word “comes,” then the verse states, “Faith, by hearing, and hearing by The Word - Christ.”

Faith is “our faith” by being endowed by God granting hearing His Word, not by some human hope so conjuring.

 

[atpollard]

Why the election of Ephesians 1:4 must be corporate:

If we had been chosen individually before creation, they we would always have been a people chosen by God. We would never have existed as "not a people." However 1 Peter 2:10 says we were once "not a people." Therefore the election of Ephesians 1:4 was corporate, not individual. It is a lock.

1 Peter 2:9-10 says a LOT more than “not a people”.

• [1Pe 2:9-10 NASB] 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Most of what it says contradicts several of your points of ELECT.

• We are “A CHOSEN RACE”: Chosen by whom.
• God “called you out of darkness”: which is the opposite of God accepting our righteousness as good enough.

However the most important part of 1 Peter 2:10 is that the verse explains exactly when and how one goes from being “NOT A PEOPLE” to being “THE PEOPLE OF GOD” and it has nothing to do with corporate election and everything to do with INDIVIDUAL Election.

• we were “NOT A PEOPLE” when we had “NOT RECEIVED MERCY”
• we became “THE PEOPLE OF GOD” when we “RECEIVED MERCY”
• People do not receive God’s mercy collectively, we each receive God’s mercy individually. No one believes, repents, or is saved by being part of the right group. That is a one on one event between a person and their God.

Therefore, 1 Peter 2:9-10 proves the opposite of what you claim and the Election of Ephesians 1:4 MUST BE INDIVIDUAL. That is, as you say, a lock.

 

[AustinC]

Yet another non-germane post of nonsense, ignoring the scripture that precludes the gift of faith, i.e we obtain access to the grace in which we stand through or on the basis of faith. Calvinism is obviously false.

Your lack of honestly evaluating yourself is noted.

 

[AustinC]

Yet another non-germane post of nonsense, ignoring the scripture that precludes the gift of faith, i.e we obtain access to the grace in which we stand through or on the basis of faith. Calvinism is obviously false.

"We obtain"..."our faith."

You promote works salvation under the guise of a false faith. Many people here see what you are claiming and know you are wrong.
Remain in your falsehood then, Van.

 

[1689Dave]

Your premise is fiction. I supported the biblical view with specific scripture.

1) I addressed the individual Election before time of Christ as Redeemer

2) I addressed the corporate Election before time of those who Christ will redeem, believers as determined by God.

3) Names are written (as others are not written) in the Lamb's book of life since creation, not before.

Please address the biblical doctrine of Election

Romans 9 destroys your hypothesis. People make scripture say whatever they need for it to say.

 

[MB]

You have this backward. If you are correct, then you better start striving and working and disciplining yourself to create the faith that will cause God to choose you. How hard do you have to work, MB? Perhaps you have failed to have faith and are therefore not chosen? How would you even know? God may look upon you and say you don't have the faith necessary to be chosen and thus you are thrown into outer darkness where their is weeping and gnashing of teeth. You better get this right, MB, or you're cooked.

Your ignorance is Bliss isn't it. HEHEHEHEHEHE!
MB

 

[MB]

"We obtain"..."our faith."

You promote works salvation under the guise of a false faith. Many people here see what you are claiming and know you are wrong.
Remain in your falsehood then, Van.

I'm Sorry you are so full of hatred for what you do not understand. Unable to prove or disprove anything in scripture you take your hatred out on everyone you disagree with. You present no real reason for what you believe yet you are unable to upset the beliefs of others and turn them to your way of thinking. One of the commandments of Christ is to Love your neighbor as your self. Yet you must not love your self and you sure don't love anyone else either. You just come here to Let everyone know you are a hateful person.
MB

 

[Van]

Readers, the “crediting our faith” statement can be misleading if one thinks It is innate condition of humankind.

Does not Paul state, “Faith (is by, comes, from) ...” (Romans 10:17)

If one leaves out the “added” word “comes,” then the verse states, “Faith, by hearing, and hearing by The Word - Christ.”

Faith is “our faith” by being endowed by God granting hearing His Word, not by some human hope so conjuring.

Fiction, scripture refers to "his faith" and "your faith" but never "endowed or instilled faith." Since we are chosen through or on the basis of faith in the truth, our faith existed before we were even gifted with salvation by grace.

 

[Van]

1 Peter 2:9-10 says a LOT more than “not a people”.

• [1Pe 2:9-10 NASB] 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR [God's] OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Most of what it says contradicts several of your points of ELECT.

• We are “A CHOSEN RACE”: Chosen by whom.
• God “called you out of darkness”: which is the opposite of God accepting our righteousness as good enough.

However the most important part of 1 Peter 2:10 is that the verse explains exactly when and how one goes from being “NOT A PEOPLE” to being “THE PEOPLE OF GOD” and it has nothing to do with corporate election and everything to do with INDIVIDUAL Election.

• we were “NOT A PEOPLE” when we had “NOT RECEIVED MERCY”
• we became “THE PEOPLE OF GOD” when we “RECEIVED MERCY”
• People do not receive God’s mercy collectively, we each receive God’s mercy individually. No one believes, repents, or is saved by being part of the right group. That is a one on one event between a person and their God.

Therefore, 1 Peter 2:9-10 proves the opposite of what you claim and the Election of Ephesians 1:4 MUST BE INDIVIDUAL. That is, as you say, a lock.

More fiction.;

Did I say we were chosen individually? Yes - so yet another misrepresentation to hide truth. 1 Peter 2:10 precludes Ephesians 1:4 election from being individual, and confirms the 2 Thessalonians 2:13 election as individual.

 

[Van]

Your lack of honestly evaluating yourself is noted.

Smokescreed #5

 

[Van]

"We obtain"..."our faith."

You promote works salvation under the guise of a false faith. Many people here see what you are claiming and know you are wrong.
Remain in your falsehood then, Van.

Here the Calvinists claim faith is "works." Which of course ignores scripture is therefore more fiction.

 

[Van]

Romans 9 destroys your hypothesis. People make scripture say whatever they need for it to say.

Smokescreed #6

 

[1689Dave]

Smokescreed #6

Care to take it on and refute Paul?

 

[Van]

Care to take it on and refute Paul?

Smokescreed #7. (Note the fiction that Paul does not provide support for both corporate and individual conditional elections.)

 

[1689Dave]

Smokescreed #7. (Note the fiction that Paul does not provide support for both corporate and individual conditional elections.)

He says God makes from the same lump vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath. You are what he determined you would be, saved or not.

 

[Van]

He says God makes from the same lump vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath. You are what he determined you would be, saved or not.

Smokescreed #8

 

[1689Dave]

Smokescreed #8

Did God condemn all under sin in Adam?

 

[Van]

Did God condemn all under sin in Adam?

Smokescreed #9 Yet another change the subject effort away from the biblical doctrine of election (corporate before creation and individual during our lifetime based on God crediting our faith as righteousness.)

The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.