Part II: Biblical Doctrine of Election

[1689Dave]

Smokescreed #9 Yet another change the subject effort away from the biblical doctrine of election (corporate before creation and individual during our lifetime based on God crediting our faith as righteousness.)

The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.

God caused all to sin in Adam. And you think sin can regenerate and save itself?

 

[George Antonios]

This is all predicated on your false claim that humans generate their own faith

It's hard to have a Biblical discussion when the other engineers his words to create a straw man.
Who here ever told you that man "generates" his faith?
Non-Calvinists grant that the ability to believe [which is not some supernatural ability in the scriptures], like the ability to choose, is God-given, not man-"generated". Now, you can go on and argue that lost man will never choose right, but that's different than putting words in our mouths about "generating".
Furthermore, the scriptures explicitly place "faith" in contradistinction to "works" so that a man believing on Christ of his own free will is not counted as a work of God:

 

[Van]

God caused all to sin in Adam. And you think sin can regenerate and save itself?

Smokescreed #10

Notice once again the charge that I believe humans can save themselves. No matter how often I point to scripture that says God alone saves people, the Calvinists keep spreading misrepresentations to deflect discussion from the biblical doctrine of Election.

 

[Van]

The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.[

 

[AustinC]

Your ignorance is Bliss isn't it. HEHEHEHEHEHE!
MB

No, my understanding allows me to rebuke your ignorance. You have erected a false teaching and call others who do not follow your path...ignorant. You speak to your own folly.

 

[Van]

No, here is me stating outright that your claim of faith is not faith at all. You preach works salvation and claim your works to be faith. You are openly telling a lie and teaching a false understanding of faith. That is my direct claim about you, Van. YOU are a false teacher and everyone should avoid your teaching as being anathema. Is that clear enough for you?

Smokescreed #11

 

[1689Dave]

Smokescreed #10

Notice once again the charge that I believe humans can save themselves. No matter how often I point to scripture that says God alone saves people, the Calvinists keep spreading misrepresentations to deflect discussion from the biblical doctrine of Election.

If salvation is conditional, you save yourself and rob God of his glory in the matter.

 

[AustinC]

It's hard to have a Biblical discussion when the other engineers his words to create a straw man.
Who here ever told you that man "generates" his faith?
Non-Calvinists grant that the ability to believe [which is not some supernatural ability in the scriptures], like the ability to choose, is God-given, not man-"generated". Now, you can go on and argue that lost man will never choose right, but that's different than putting words in our mouths about "generating".
Furthermore, the scriptures explicitly place "faith" in contradistinction to "works" so that a man believing on Christ of his own free will is not counted as a work of God:

George, you must never read Van's comments.

 

[AustinC]

Smokescreed #11

Irrelevant response #11 from Van. Likely because you have no legitimate position.

 

[agedman]

Fiction, scripture refers to "his faith" and "your faith" but never "endowed or instilled faith." Since we are chosen through or on the basis of faith in the truth, our faith existed before we were even gifted with salvation by grace.

Fiction, Scripture refers to the personal possession of faith because it was given to individuals to posses, not something innate.

You then deny

“12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”​

You also deny

“17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.​

You also deny

“1Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust​

Three witness against you, Van. John, Paul, and Peter.

They knew that “in the flesh there is nothing good.”

 

[agedman]

It's hard to have a Biblical discussion when the other engineers his words to create a straw man.
Who here ever told you that man "generates" his faith? ...

Van does.

He considers all humankind have innate faith by pointing to the personal pronouns associated with faith in Scriptures.

He also holds to a type of conditional election. He does so by trying to present God as judging the human conjured faith to see if it worthy of being credited for righteousness.

He presents that humans can actually prevent others from entering the kingdom of heaven.

And other concepts which he has departed from Scriptures.

 

[Van]

If salvation is conditional, you save yourself and rob God of his glory in the matter.

More fiction, no scriptural support. Notice that scripture says when we repent, we glorify God, the exact opposite of Calvinism.

 

[Van]

Irrelevant response #11 from Van. Likely because you have no legitimate position.

Smokescreed #12

 

[1689Dave]

More fiction, no scriptural support. Notice that scripture says when we repent, we glorify God, the exact opposite of Calvinism.

Can you define law and what it depends on? It means you must freely choose to obey it to reap the rewards or be punished.

This is how you turn the gospel into law, denying salvation by grace. And the law cannot save. So you have many lost people who think they are saved when they are not.

 

[agedman]

More fiction, no scriptural support. Notice that scripture says when we repent, we glorify God, the exact opposite of Calvinism.

You give a false report against Calvinism.

 

[Van]

Fiction, Scripture refers to the personal possession of faith because it was given to individuals to posses, not something innate.

You then deny

“12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”​

You also deny

“17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.​

You also deny

“1Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust​

Three witness against you, Van. John, Paul, and Peter.

They knew that “in the flesh there is nothing good.”

On and on folks, Calvinist post fiction. Does being saved by God alone support we are saved by the will of God? Of course, so misrepresentation #1.
Did I and do I deny faith comes from hearing [with understanding] the gospel? Nope, thus misrepresentation #2.
2 Peter 2:1 provides no support for Calvinism. The letter is addressed to those who have a faith" i.e those who also have been saved as Peter and his colleagues, those who have been born anew. Thus His "divine power" caused them to be born anew. And those in Christ are those Jesus "richly knows." And of course as a child of God we have been granted His promised new birth, thus partakers of the divine nature, having escaped our corruption, thus made holy and blameless by the blood of the Lamb.
Did I deny that those whose mind is set on fleshly desires cannot please God? Nope

This is all Calvinist have, misrepresent scripture and the views of non-Calvinists,

 

[AustinC]

Smokescreed #12

Irrelevant response #12

 

[AustinC]

On and on folks, Calvinist post fiction. Does being saved by God alone support we are saved by the will of God? Of course, so misrepresentation #1.
Did I and do I deny faith comes from hearing [with understanding] the gospel? Nope, thus misrepresentation #2.
2 Peter 2:1 provides no support for Calvinism. The letter is addressed to those who have a faith" i.e those who also have been saved as Peter and his colleagues, those who have been born anew. Thus His "divine power" caused them to be born anew. And those in Christ are those Jesus "richly knows." And of course as a child of God we have been granted His promised new birth, thus partakers of the divine nature, having escaped our corruption, thus made holy and blameless by the blood of the Lamb.
Did I deny that those whose mind is set on fleshly desires cannot please God? Nope

This is all Calvinist have, misrepresent scripture and the views of non-Calvinists,

So...those who are dead in their trespasses and sins do not have faith. Is this statement correct? Yes or no is sufficient.

 

[Van]

Van does.
He considers all humankind have innate faith by pointing to the personal pronouns associated with faith in Scriptures.
He also holds to a type of conditional election. He does so by trying to present God as judging the human conjured faith to see if it worthy of being credited for righteousness.
He presents that humans can actually prevent others from entering the kingdom of heaven.
And other concepts which he has departed from Scriptures.

Pay no attention to this misrepresentation.
Did I claim we have "innate faith" Nope But this Calvinist is allowed to post this misrepresentation over and over.
Did I claim our faith is "worthy?" Nope, I claimed the opposite, it is as worthless as a filthy rag.
Did I claim Matthew 23:13 means what it says? Yes. Did this Calvinist address the verse? Nope Instead he denies the very words of Christ. Go figure.
Do I ever depart from scripture? Nope, but I provide dozens of scriptural passages which demonstrate Calvinism is unbiblical.

But are my actual posts addressed? Nope. Strawman arguments to change the subject from Election doctrine are hoisted over and over.

 

[Van]

You give a false report against Calvinism.

Smokescreed #13