Part II: Biblical Doctrine of Election

[Van]

I take this as you saying that those dead in their trespasses and sins already have faith and they activate their ability to believe. God then evaluates their level of belief and either elects to declare their faith righteous or God elects to declare their faith unrighteous.
Thus, to your understanding, Election is based upon the human beings faith and whether it is righteous or not.
Is this an accurate understanding of faith and election as you see it?

Smokescreed #19
Anyone not able to see the difference between responding to the gospel and having innate faith? On and on folks, misrepresentation after misrepresentation solely for the purpose of obscuring truth.

 

[atpollard]

6) God accepts our faith - ( Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24)

What is the SOURCE of that "faith" ... us or God?

• [Luke 17:5 NASB] 5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"

• [Hebrews 12:2 NASB] 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

• [2 Peter 1:1 NASB] 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
  

 

[Van]

What is the SOURCE of that "faith" ... us or God?

• [Luke 17:5 NASB] 5 The apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"

• [Hebrews 12:2 NASB] 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

• [2 Peter 1:1 NASB] 1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Asked and answered dozens of times, thus just another smokescreed post.
4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

 

[Van]

The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.

The biblical doctrine of Election (ELECT) rejects an individual election of humans before creation, but accepts an individual conditional election of humans for salvation during their lifetime. The doctrine rejects the false claim that the lost are unable to understand the milk of the gospel. The doctrine accepts that God credits the faith of some of the fallen (as flawed as that faith might be) and then transfers those credited into Christ. Only after a person is put into Christ, are they made alive (regenerated) together with Christ. Finally, once a person is born anew, God protects the person's faith so they always and without fail endure to the end, i.e once saved always saved through faith protected by the power of Almighty God.

 

[agedman]

Romans

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. ​

 

[atpollard]

Asked and answered dozens of times, thus just another smokescreed post.
4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

None of the verses you listed appeared to say "turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe" and you made no effort to address the scriptures that suggest otherwise.
Should we just get out our sharpie and fix those verses ... because you say so?

[PS. the word is still "smokescreen" and there is no such word as "smokescreed".]

 

[AustinC]

Smokescreed #19
Anyone not able to see the difference between responding to the gospel and having innate faith? On and on folks, misrepresentation after misrepresentation solely for the purpose of obscuring truth.

Van, you are not answering the questions. Instead you hide behind your smokescreed. You are the one using smokescreed. Come out from behind your smoke and answer the questions.

 

[agedman]

The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

Did anyone see ANY supporting verses?

No support from Scripture.

It is a failed view.

 

[Van]

None of the verses you listed appeared to say "turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe" and you made no effort to address the scriptures that suggest otherwise.
Should we just get out our sharpie and fix those verses ... because you say so?

[PS. the word is still "smokescreen" and there is no such word as "smokescreed".]

Smokescreed #20 !!!

Calvinism denies John 3:16 which says everyone believing into Him. Calvinists fix by deletion or rewrite or addition verse after verse so natural they charge others with their malfeasance.

 

[Van]

Van, you are not answering the questions. Instead you hide behind your smokescreed. You are the one using smokescreed. Come out from behind your smoke and answer the questions.

Smokescreed #21 !!!

 

[Van]

Did anyone see ANY supporting verses?
.

More than two dozen separate verses have been posted in this very thread in support of the biblical doctrine of Election.
1) Ephesians 1:4
2) 1 Peter 2:10
3) 2 Thessalonians 2:13
4) James 2:5
5) Romans 5:19
6) Psalms 51:5
7) Ephesians 4:22
8) 1 Chronicles 28:9
9-10) Romans 4:4-5
11-12) Romans 4:23-24
13-15) 1 Timothy 2:4-6
16) 2 Peter 2:1
17-18) 2 Corinthians 5:20-21
19) Colossians 1:13
20) 1 Corinthians 12:13
21) Romans 6:3
22) Ephesians 2:5
23) Mark 1:15
24) Hebrews 3:13
25) 1 Corinthians 3:7
26-28) 1 Peter 3-5


But the Calvinist denies any scriptures have been cited!!
Pay no attention to the non-stop smokescreed of those hiding truth and presenting falsehood.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinism denies John 3:16 which says everyone believing into Him.

Please point out "everyone believing into Him" in John 3:16 ...

• [KJV] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
• [NKJV] “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
• [NLT] “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
• [NIV] For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
• [ESV] “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
• [CSB] “For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
• [NASB] “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
• [NET] For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
• [RSV] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
• [ASV] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
• [YLT] for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
• [DBY] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.
• [WEB] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"everyone believing into Him" appears to be a paraphrase rather than a quote.
What a Calvinist would ask from these verses is "Who is 'whosoever believeth' or 'everyone who believes'?" since we know for certain that everyone without exception does not believe.

Jesus said that it is those that the Father has given Him that will come to Him ... ALL OF THEM ... and Jesus will lose NONE OF THEM ...

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." [John 6:37-39 NASB]
​

We Calvinists are too dull-witted to do anything but just believe what Jesus said. Only Arminians are clever enough to invent things like Prevenient Grace.

 

[agedman]

More than two dozen separate verses have been posted in this very thread in support of the biblical doctrine of Election.
1) Ephesians 1:4
2) 1 Peter 2:10
3) 2 Thessalonians 2:13
4) James 2:5
5) Romans 5:19
6) Psalms 51:5
7) Ephesians 4:22
8) 1 Chronicles 28:9
9-10) Romans 4:4-5
11-12) Romans 4:23-24
13-15) 1 Timothy 2:4-6
16) 2 Peter 2:1
17-18) 2 Corinthians 5:20-21
19) Colossians 1:13
20) 1 Corinthians 12:13
21) Romans 6:3
22) Ephesians 2:5
23) Mark 1:15
24) Hebrews 3:13
25) 1 Corinthians 3:7
26-28) 1 Peter 3-5


But the Calvinist denies any scriptures have been cited!!
Pay no attention to the non-stop smokescreed of those hiding truth and presenting falsehood.

You can post a list of Bible verses, but you have not proved a single claim from them that actually supports your claims.

Folks, pay no attention to the non-stop smokescreen posts from Van, he uses such tactics when hiding truth and presenting falsehood

 

[AustinC]

Smokescreed #21 !!!

Just admit that people have faith before salvation and people must activate that faith before God can elect to call their faith righteous or unrighteous.
Every person reading this thread knows that is exactly what you are saying, despite your desperate attempt to hide it.

 

[MB]

I take this as you saying that those dead in their trespasses and sins already have faith and they activate their ability to believe. God then evaluates their level of belief and either elects to declare their faith righteous or God elects to declare their faith unrighteous.

Thus, to your understanding, Election is based upon the human beings faith and whether it is righteous or not.

Is this an accurate understanding of faith and election as you see it?

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
MB

 

[agedman]

Just admit that people have faith before salvation and people must activate that faith before God can elect to call their faith righteous or unrighteous.
Every person reading this thread knows that is exactly what you are saying, despite your desperate attempt to hide it.

Van apparently neglects that (according to Romans) every believer is given a specific amount (measure) of faith by God.

Human faith is merely hope so.

God’s faith is full assurance.

 

[AustinC]

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
MB

Van's doppelganger, You are applying this to all humanity. Is that correct?
So, even though Paul is writing to the church in Rome, you are claiming that every human on the planet has been given faith. That would mean that Nero had faith when he killed both Paul and Peter. All the person's martyring others across the timeline and today have faith and they are butchering their fellow person's of faith.
Do you really want to go down that path by claiming "everyone" is universal to all humans, regardless of how they respond to the gospel?

Go ahead, explain your universalism to us.

 

[agedman]

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
MB

MB,

Paul is addressing believers, not the general public.

1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. 4For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,5so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
​

God measured faith to and for believers, not unbelievers.

 

[MB]

Van apparently neglects that (according to Romans) every believer is given a specific amount (measure) of faith by God.

Human faith is merely hope so.

God’s faith is full assurance.

Maybe you can prove that there is more than one kind of faith don't you think?
MB

 

[MB]

Van's doppelganger, You are applying this to all humanity. Is that correct?
So, even though Paul is writing to the church in Rome, you are claiming that every human on the planet has been given faith. That would mean that Nero had faith when he killed both Paul and Peter. All the person's martyring others across the timeline and today have faith and they are butchering their fellow person's of faith.
Do you really want to go down that path by claiming "everyone" is universal to all humans, regardless of how they respond to the gospel?

Go ahead, explain your universalism to us.

I'm a born again Christian not a not a warmed over Catholic like your self who has to work to keep him self saved.
Prove the Bible wrong. Go ahead show us just how ignorant you really are. That verse says every man. I don't know maybe your not a man.
MB