Part II: Biblical Doctrine of Election

[MB]

MB,

Paul is addressing believers, not the general public.

1Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. 4For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,5so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
​

God measured faith to and for believers, not unbelievers.

All that Biblical education you claim to have and you still don't know scripture. Sort of like election you believe in, you elected your self.
MB

 

[atpollard]

That verse says every man.

No it doesn't.

For I say, through the grace that was given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think above what it behoveth to think; but to think so as to think wisely, as to each God did deal a measure of faith, [Rom 12:3 YLT]​

 

[agedman]

Maybe you can prove that there is more than one kind of faith don't you think?
MB

No, there is only one saving faith that comes from God.

However, just as Romans points out, that faith was given on purpose for purpose.

Human hope so is not the same as “faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.”

 

[agedman]

All that Biblical education you claim to have and you still don't know scripture. Sort of like election you believe in, you elected your self.
MB

No, that is what Van’s view expresses.

He is the one who thinks a person can willfully be turned away from heaven by others and those who willfully can express human faith that God’s attention will be acquired to see if the quality and quantity meet some goal and the exertion be credited for righteousness.

 

[MB]

No it doesn't.

For I say, through the grace that was given to me, to every one who is among you, not to think above what it behoveth to think; but to think so as to think wisely, as to each God did deal a measure of faith, [Rom 12:3 YLT]​

They say the same thing just in a different way. Different versions tend to do that.
MB

 

[MB]

No, that is what Van’s view expresses.

He is the one who thinks a person can willfully be turned away from heaven by others and those who willfully can express human faith that God’s attention will be acquired to see if the quality and quantity meet some goal and the exertion be credited for righteousness.

Faith is still faith there is no other kind. Faith is like a Muscle the more you exercise it, the stronger it gets. No exercise the weaker it will get
No one has Godly faith though they may have faith in God.
MB

 

[agedman]

Faith is still faith there is no other kind. Faith is like a Muscle the more you exercise it, the stronger it gets. No exercise the weaker it will get
No one has Godly faith though they may have faith in God.
MB

Saving faith is from God.

Permit me to rabbit trail in application.

Often among the people you hear phrases such as, “If I just had more faith,” or “claim in faith ...”.

Those are expressions of human hope so, and reflect the lack of assurance.


However, faith from God brings assurance. One knows they have been redeemed.

Peter speaks of adding to our faith (that saving faith) certain characteristics of the believer such as virtue, steadfastness, knowledge,...

Paul’s letters encouraged believers to (in various ways) work out your faith.

James told that faith is shown by works.

Romans 12 is along the same line with the added amount information of faith being measure out by God for purpose.

Faith (saving faith) is the gift of God.

It is God’s unmerited favor, that no one be able to boast.

 

[AustinC]

Maybe you can prove that there is more than one kind of faith don't you think?
MB

Maybe you can answer my question regarding the verse you chose.

It is not my responsibility to prove more than one kind of faith. I hold to the biblical text that shows one faith, gifted to those whom God chooses to redeem, which is therefore always deemed righteous because it comes from God.

 

[AustinC]

Faith is still faith there is no other kind. Faith is like a Muscle the more you exercise it, the stronger it gets. No exercise the weaker it will get
No one has Godly faith though they may have faith in God.
MB

Huh, sounds like you created it and you make it whatever you want it to be. All hail MB the Great who has made his own faith like Atlas!!!

 

[MB]

Saving faith is from God.

Permit me to rabbit trail in application.

Often among the people you hear phrases such as, “If I just had more faith,” or “claim in faith ...”.

Those are expressions of human hope so, and reflect the lack of assurance.


However, faith from God brings assurance. One knows they have been redeemed.

Peter speaks of adding to our faith (that saving faith) certain characteristics of the believer such as virtue, steadfastness, knowledge,...

Paul’s letters encouraged believers to (in various ways) work out your faith.

James told that faith is shown by works.

Romans 12 is along the same line with the added amount information of faith being measure out by God for purpose.

Faith (saving faith) is the gift of God.

It is God’s unmerited favor, that no one be able to boast.

The Bible says faith comes from hearing the gospel. Not directly from God and there is only one kind of faith. You'd be hard pressed to prove it comes any other way.. By the way when Peter asked to have his faith increased Jesus kept on teaching him the gospel. Because hearing the gospel is the only way.
MB

 

[MB]

Maybe you can answer my question regarding the verse you chose.

It is not my responsibility to prove more than one kind of faith. I hold to the biblical text that shows one faith, gifted to those whom God chooses to redeem, which is therefore always deemed righteous because it comes from God.

Maybe you can answer my question regarding the verse you chose.

It is not my responsibility to prove more than one kind of faith. I hold to the biblical text that shows one faith, gifted to those whom God chooses to redeem, which is therefore always deemed righteous because it comes from God.

Gee I hear a clanging symbol Sounds as if Austin is trying to feed us some bull. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehe

 

[AustinC]

Gee I hear a clanging symbol Sounds as if Austin is trying to feed us some bull. Hehehehehehehehehehehehehe[emoji23]Laugh

I hear the sound of a man running away from an honest question and laughing as he runs away...

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 4 am EDT / 1 am PDT

 

[Van]

Please point out "everyone believing into Him" in John 3:16 ... SNIP
Jesus said that it is those that the Father has given Him that will come to Him ... ALL OF THEM ... and Jesus will lose NONE OF THEM ...

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." [John 6:37-39 NASB]
​

We Calvinists are too dull-witted to do anything but just believe what Jesus said. Only Arminians are clever enough to invent things like Prevenient Grace.

LOL, first you have no idea what John 3:16 says, then you demonstrate a lack of understand of John 6.
Finally, you make yet another obviously false charge, as if I believed in Prevenient Grace. What a waste.

The Father gives a person to Christ, when God transfers the person into Christ. Thus all given to Christ, arrive and will not be cast out.

 

[Van]

You can post a list of Bible verses, but you have not proved a single claim from them that actually supports your claims.

Here the Calvinist does not admit he posted a material false statement, but instead hoists the logical fallacy of personal incredulity. What a waste

 

[Van]

Just admit that people have faith before salvation and people must activate that faith before God can elect to call their faith righteous or unrighteous.
Every person reading this thread knows that is exactly what you are saying, despite your desperate attempt to hide it.

Yet another smokescreed post, when has anyone suggested the lost "activate faith?" They make up strawman arguments to hide truth.

The thread asserts (apparently unbeknownst to AustinC) people have faith before their individual election for salvation.
It seems all the Calvinists are able to do is post misdirection, or in other words SMOKESCREED

 

[AustinC]

So far there has been zero answer from the OP and his doppelganger regarding the important questions of faith as they relate to election. This thread is about to be closed. The readers can make their own decisions.
Regarding John 3:16, I will take atpollard's understanding over the OPs everytime. Why? Because atpollard has proved to be honest in his posts and he truly studies God's word to allow God to teach him and mold him.
As for election, God elects the vile sinner who owns no faith and makes such a sinner alive with Christ. This is God's Sovereignty in action.

 

[atpollard]

smokescreed

"Smokescreed" is still NOT a word.

 

[atpollard]

LOL, first you have no idea what John 3:16 says

Respectfully, I was not the one who misquoted John 3:16. I presented MANY correct translations and none of them matched the erroneous quote, so the facts speak for themselves.

then you demonstrate a lack of understand of John 6.

I think not. You claim John 6:37-39 means after we believe, then the Father gives us to Christ ...

The Father gives a person to Christ, when God transfers the person into Christ. Thus all given to Christ, arrive and will not be cast out.

To quote Inigo Montoya ... "I do not think it means what you think it means."

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." [John 6:37-39 NASB]

Finally, you make yet another obviously false charge, as if I believed in Prevenient Grace.

I was not actually charging you with believing in Prevenient Grace, since you believe that God accepts reprobate intellectual ascent (human faith) without the need for any gift of divine "saving faith". I was contrasting Calvinists who just accept what the Bible says, however unpleasant, as true with the more clever inventions of men, like Wesleyan Prevenient Grace or Van's Election by Reprobate Faith.

 

[atpollard]

Here the Calvinist does not admit he posted a material false statement

His statement was not materially false. He was speaking of your posts of the E.L.E.C.T. acronym containing no scripture, and they do not ...

The five points of Biblical Election (ELECT)

1. Elections - God chose His Redeemer individually (Christ) and all those Christ would redeem corporately before the foundation of the world, the elections before time; and then subsequently chooses believers individually during their lifetime based on crediting their wholehearted faith in Christ, the second election.

2. Love overcomes depravity - Mankind is depraved from conception, separated from God by being in a state of sin with a corrupt flesh and a corrupt human spirit. But God, who understands the heart, accepts the faith, as depraved as it may be, of those who love and trust in His Son.

3. Effective reconciliation - Christ’s propitiation is sufficient to save all men, but the available reconciliation is only received, when God credits our faith as righteousness and spiritually baptizes us into Christ, making us spiritually alive together with Christ.

4. Cultivated call - Turning to God and trusting in Christ occur when receptive people hear the gospel and believe. Thus faith in Christ is spread by an external call to those who receive the gospel wholeheartedly.

5. Trust in Faith - Only by persevering in faith can a believer be sure of salvation, because God protects the faith of His chosen ones.

See nearly identical Posts #1, #23, #60, #64, #88, #118 and #124.