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Passive Occupy protesters take pepper spray blast
- Thread starter freeatlast
- Start date
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Was it justified -?
Yes it was!
The Univ asked the police to come
and it was not totally passive:
from the link:
Charles J. Kelly, a former Baltimore Police Department lieutenant, After reviewing the video, said he observed at least two cases of "active resistance" from protesters. In one instance, a woman pulls her arm back from an officer. In the second instance, a protester curls into a ball. Each of those actions could have warranted more force, including baton strikes and pressure-point techniques. who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.
Kelly who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.
Kelly stated "When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them," Kelly said. "Bodies don't have handles on them."
When will these kids get it thru their thick skulls there are there to lean - not to protest! And it is the responsibility of the school to teach them.
salty
Note: bold emphasis mine
Yes it was!
The Univ asked the police to come
and it was not totally passive:
from the link:
Charles J. Kelly, a former Baltimore Police Department lieutenant, After reviewing the video, said he observed at least two cases of "active resistance" from protesters. In one instance, a woman pulls her arm back from an officer. In the second instance, a protester curls into a ball. Each of those actions could have warranted more force, including baton strikes and pressure-point techniques. who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.
Kelly who wrote the department's use of force guidelines, said pepper spray is a "compliance tool" that can be used on subjects who do not resist, and is preferable to simply lifting protesters.
Kelly stated "When you start picking up human bodies, you risk hurting them," Kelly said. "Bodies don't have handles on them."
When will these kids get it thru their thick skulls there are there to lean - not to protest! And it is the responsibility of the school to teach them.
salty
Note: bold emphasis mine
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I do not understand why there is any question about this. Do as you are instructed by law enforcement or you will be forced to. This was minimal force and given the historical nature of this movement I am surprised more force was not used. The response here was quite tempered.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Tear gas is for dispersal. Pepper spray is to incapacitate. Police thuggery is un-American. Passively sitting was not a threat, but a constitutional right of assembly. AnotherKent State cannot be far behind.
Failure to comply is a threat. You do not get to just do what ever you want even under the cover of passively sitting. This is a typical far left tactic. Cause problems, disobey lawful orders, and then play the victim game to win the PR game.
freeatlast
New Member
I agree, but here is the question. Were the orders lawful? What law were they breaking?
glfredrick
New Member
Perhaps we might ask whether or not the free speech and congregation rights of one group trump another groups similar rights?
The occupy movement seems to think they do -- and they exercise their interpretation of those rights by attempting to, well, occupy, and in so doing to halt the free exercise of those with whom they disagree.
While they have every right to congregate and to have their voices be heard, that right does not extend to the point where it interferes with another's rights to operate their business because bodies block access. I recall Operation Rescue (the abortion protest) where a similar case occurred. The protesters were required to stand a certain distance apart from the areas they were protesting, and yes, many were arrested for disobeying that mandate. Wesboro Baptist is another case. They have every right to protest, distasteful as their protest can be, but they do not have any right to block access for others.
So, sympathizers with Occupy may just have to suck this one up and realize that they will be man-handled if they violate the rights of others in the pursuit of their own (not-so-noble) goals.
The occupy movement seems to think they do -- and they exercise their interpretation of those rights by attempting to, well, occupy, and in so doing to halt the free exercise of those with whom they disagree.
While they have every right to congregate and to have their voices be heard, that right does not extend to the point where it interferes with another's rights to operate their business because bodies block access. I recall Operation Rescue (the abortion protest) where a similar case occurred. The protesters were required to stand a certain distance apart from the areas they were protesting, and yes, many were arrested for disobeying that mandate. Wesboro Baptist is another case. They have every right to protest, distasteful as their protest can be, but they do not have any right to block access for others.
So, sympathizers with Occupy may just have to suck this one up and realize that they will be man-handled if they violate the rights of others in the pursuit of their own (not-so-noble) goals.
Robert Snow
New Member
I was both unjustified and wrong. Hopefully some police officers will lose their jobs and possibly go to jail over this.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Jail for the excessive use of force, and oust the chancellor. This is no way to engender respect for officers and the law. These were rogue campus cops gone wild.
I feel pretty sorry for the cops who have to deal with these idiots. My prayers go out to them and their families.
freeatlast
New Member
I agree with you premise, but that does not seem to be the case here. How were these people breaking any laws?
freeatlast
New Member
Why are they idiots?
Because they sat there and get sprayed, & didn't move.
If the police tell you to move, and you don't, you are breaking the law.
I am glad to see America growing weary of this.
If the police tell you to move, and you don't, you are breaking the law.
I am glad to see America growing weary of this.
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"To Protect & Serve"
Cops protecting the property rights of tax payers. I have no problem with their actions.
Cops protecting the property rights of tax payers. I have no problem with their actions.
freeatlast
New Member
What you are suggesting is what every dictator suggest and that is the police have absolute authority. Again what law were they breaking? The police cannot just say do thus and thus unless there is a law! The polkice do not makew the laws. So what law were these people breaking?
Robert Snow
New Member
Curtis only feels this way when he is against the goal of the protesters. If it were something he agreed with, like protesting abortion (which I think should be protested), he would be up in arms about these police tactics.
The chancellor of the university made a decision based on safety and health for the entire campus, not just a group of protestors. Based on that decision, police were legally requested to remove personnel from the campus grounds.
I have no comments about the use of the pepper spray. Until you've been in the position of having to enforce a law, and meeting resistance, it's very easy to armchair quarterback.
I have no comments about the use of the pepper spray. Until you've been in the position of having to enforce a law, and meeting resistance, it's very easy to armchair quarterback.
poncho
Well-Known Member
Interesting thing I found was that when the protesters closed thier eyes the police forced open their mouths and sprayed the stuff down their throats.
"One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood." Got what he deserved right?
At an earlier time in America this would be considered torture or attempted murder.
But today in the eyes of the public it's cool. If you disobey the state ya get what ya deserve. Some people get a sick kind of satisfaction out this kind of thing. Until it's thier turn. And their turn is coming count on it.
And who will they blame when their turn does come? Certainly not themselves for allowing the state to brutalize others. You know others, meaning citizens other than themselves.
It's strange ya know. There is never a shortage of posters who defend the actions of the state no matter how brutal because a few of it's citizens may have broken a law. What's strange is that these same people barely make a peep about the state making a complete mockery of the law. The president decides to take it upon himself to start a regime change war. And does it. Just like that.
How many laws has he broken in the process? How many deaths has he caused? How many more has he endangered? Nary a word. But let a kid defy "authority" or a city ordinance or some such "law", spray him, beat him, drag him away and lock him up! Justice done right?
Hypocrites.
It's starnge ya know. Our "western leaders" fully support protests and uprisings in any other country except their own. While making big speeches about "freedom of speech and assembly" And how great democracy is . . . They roll out the tanks and riot squads and pepper spray and rubber bullets at the first sign of dissent.
Hypocrites.
I can't help but wonder . . . what if this happened in another country. How would you all all feel about it then. Would it be justice or tyranny?
One thing I feel is certain though as these protesters are not backing down. I mean all the OWS protesters, and the state isn't going to back down. This is going to get real ugly. It'll be the State vs. Citizens. It'll be interesting to see how you all react when the full power of our high tech militarized police state is on display. Yeah, I'm talking about the police state you all say doesn't exist.
I think we may get a close up look at it . . . soon. Let's see if you still deny it exists then. Yep, that'll be real interesting.
"One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood." Got what he deserved right?
At an earlier time in America this would be considered torture or attempted murder.
But today in the eyes of the public it's cool. If you disobey the state ya get what ya deserve. Some people get a sick kind of satisfaction out this kind of thing. Until it's thier turn. And their turn is coming count on it.
And who will they blame when their turn does come? Certainly not themselves for allowing the state to brutalize others. You know others, meaning citizens other than themselves.
It's strange ya know. There is never a shortage of posters who defend the actions of the state no matter how brutal because a few of it's citizens may have broken a law. What's strange is that these same people barely make a peep about the state making a complete mockery of the law. The president decides to take it upon himself to start a regime change war. And does it. Just like that.
How many laws has he broken in the process? How many deaths has he caused? How many more has he endangered? Nary a word. But let a kid defy "authority" or a city ordinance or some such "law", spray him, beat him, drag him away and lock him up! Justice done right?
Hypocrites.
It's starnge ya know. Our "western leaders" fully support protests and uprisings in any other country except their own. While making big speeches about "freedom of speech and assembly" And how great democracy is . . . They roll out the tanks and riot squads and pepper spray and rubber bullets at the first sign of dissent.
Hypocrites.
I can't help but wonder . . . what if this happened in another country. How would you all all feel about it then. Would it be justice or tyranny?
One thing I feel is certain though as these protesters are not backing down. I mean all the OWS protesters, and the state isn't going to back down. This is going to get real ugly. It'll be the State vs. Citizens. It'll be interesting to see how you all react when the full power of our high tech militarized police state is on display. Yeah, I'm talking about the police state you all say doesn't exist.
I think we may get a close up look at it . . . soon. Let's see if you still deny it exists then. Yep, that'll be real interesting.
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freeatlast
New Member
May I remind you how I said that the time is coming when our police would attack the citizens, but you said it would never happen, and now you are justifying it. We will also see the military do it and they will take lives.The view point you are suggesting is why this all will happen. We have lost our way as a people as to how to do what is right. These people were not doing anything illegal and it will all come to light that this was an abusive attack by those who hold the authority and seek to push down the rights of the people. We are becoming no different the Labia, Egypt and many of the rest of the countries with dictators.
We saw our civil liberties shredded after 911 by our government and the military helped carry out those violations against the Constitution with armed solders in our airports harassing American citizens after thousands of military personnel had given their lives for the freedoms we have, or should I say had. This is only going to get worse.
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