Pastor warns Christians not to play Mega Millions lotto

[Havensdad]

I agree with your foundation but not how you arrived there. Murder is spoken plainly, but not abortion. Where is abortion dealt with in the Bible? You started with a theology to prove a point not the foundation. That is like building a home on a foundation that someone else may have started and it may or may not be adequate. I am unable to see how you developed murder and abortion as synonymous. The Bible says that God breathed the breath of life into them. Some well known preachers such as Criswell and others at the time did not believe it was a baby until it was born. Therefore abortion was not murder because the baby was not born yet. Is not abortion pre-birth?

Its murder. You can muddy the waters all you want, but abortion is just a name for a KIND of murder. Since the Bible forbids ALL kinds of "murder", ir is forbidden. THAT is the foundation. Saying, "Well, its not a baby till its born," is what is starting a theological stance to prove a point. The burden of proof is on the individual that a certain kind of person, is not a person. I don't have to try to defend unborn people, or black people, or Asian people, and try to show from the Bible that they ARE in fact persons. That is just absurd, and I don't care who says what.

Is it a baby because it did not have the breath of life in it and did not live?

Unborn children breathe through the placenta. A human being cannot survive without a continuous supply of oxygen. Again, you are attempting to shift the burden of proof.

I just do not believe that you can be anti-abortion directly from scripture. Is it wrong to abort a baby because it endangers the mother?

Sure you can. "You shall not murder."
As far as the other, killing someone who is endangering your life is not murder, according to the Bible.

I think many Christians miss one important thing. That is that God places importance on some things above others. Is it more important to work at a hospital and miss a sabbath/church or is going to sabbath/church an absolute.

Ex. 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

How would you support priorities in that situation directly from scripture.

Mar 3:3 And he said to the man with the withered hand, "Come here."
Mar 3:4 And he said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?" But they were silent.
Mar 3:5 And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.


That is very plain, and applies directly to the situation you quote.

However, dealing with a situation where two Biblical commands compete, is COMPLETELY different than inventing a commandment out of thin air. Gambling is not only nowhere mentioned as a sin anywhere in the Bible, it is not even alluded to. There is literally NOTHING about it. We DO see, however, places in scripture where so called "games of chance" are used by Godly men in good ways. The Urim and Thummim, for instance, or the drawing of lots.

 

[Grasshopper]

Another sign of the end times, WebDog and I agree.

Was thinking the same thing.:laugh:

One dollar on the lottery or a Dr. Pepper...I chose the ticket and am healthier for it. Is it really gambling when you know you aren't going to win?

I also occasionally support the Indian tribe of southern Oklahoma.

As long as you control the gambling and it doesn't control you I see no room for a lecture from a preacher (most of whom are overweight). There is a difference between whether buying a lotto ticket or feeding a slot machine is sinning or just unwise.

 

[Jon-Marc]

At the risk of being told I'm in sin, I occasionally play $1 in the Super Lotto and the Mega Lotto. I have won a little a few times. I'm not so concerned about having millions in the bank as I am being out of debt and not having to pay all that interest on bills.

Being retired, I'm just barely getting by, although my needs are met. God didn't promise to make us rich but to meet our needs, which He does with me. Still, I would love to live in a real house again instead of a 22-year-old RV that leaks every time it rains, that isn't cold in the winter due to not being able to afford to keep it warm even if it was actually insulated, that isn't too hot in the summer because (1) I can't afford to run the AC as I'd like, (2) the AC blows the circuit breaker because it pulls too much juice, and I can't run anything else that is electrical at the same time as the AC.

I don't see why playing the lotto should be wrong since there's nothing in scripture that says that gambling is wrong--as long as one isn't using the rent or mortgage payment, grocery money, or money for paying bills to play the lotto. The $1 that I occasionally play isn't going to make any difference on my bills or anything else--unless it wins me enough to pay off my bills. Of course, since God apparently has a problem with people who have a lot of money, I doubt He will ever allow me to win, but there's always the possibility that He might.

 

[gb93433]

I don't see why playing the lotto should be wrong since there's nothing in scripture that says that gambling is wrong--as long as one isn't using the rent or mortgage payment, grocery money, or money for paying bills to play the lotto.

Have you ever noticed what has happened to a number of the lottery winners. It is sad.

 

[gb93433]

Its murder. You can muddy the waters all you want, but abortion is just a name for a KIND of murder. Since the Bible forbids ALL kinds of "murder", it is forbidden. THAT is the foundation. Saying, "Well, its not a baby till its born," is what is starting a theological stance to prove a point.

I made the claim that abortion is implied in scripture and you said it was directly addressed. So I am waiting to see from you in scripture where abortion is not implied but directly addressed. I am unable to find anywhere where the word abortion is used in scripture or alluded to.

Unborn children breathe through the placenta. A human being cannot survive without a continuous supply of oxygen. Again, you are attempting to shift the burden of proof.

While I agree with everything you wrote, I am still waiting for you to give direct evidence that deals with abortion from scripture directly.

 

[Godspeaks2me]

Have you ever noticed what has happened to a number of the lottery winners. It is sad.

Pray brother's that it does not happen to me. I WON!!! I AM ONE OF THE WINNERS!! I checked my number's this morning and realized I had won and called it in. PLEASE PRAY FOR ME, I baught a fire proof breifcase and put it in there until i make my way to turn the ticket in officially. I will be very busy so I won't be on for a while, probably. I am going to hire a lawyer today and make sure I do everything right. BWE.. Thank you, Jesus! :godisgood:

 

[preachinjesus]

Have you ever noticed what has happened to a number of the lottery winners. It is sad.

Yes, but again this isn't an argument against the lottery as sin...or not.

 

[Havensdad]

I made the claim that abortion is implied in scripture and you said it was directly addressed. So I am waiting to see from you in scripture where abortion is not implied but directly addressed. I am unable to find anywhere where the word abortion is used in scripture or alluded to.

While I agree with everything you wrote, I am still waiting for you to give direct evidence that deals with abortion from scripture directly.

Already did. "Thou shall not Murder." Directly addressed. Couldn't get any more direct.

Murder: "The unjustified killing of another human being."

 

[Havensdad]

Have you ever noticed what has happened to a number of the lottery winners. It is sad.

Did you know that hundreds of people die every year going to or leaving church? *Gasp*

Guess going to church is evil. :tonofbricks:

 

[gb93433]

Already did. "Thou shall not Murder." Directly addressed. Couldn't get any more direct.

Murder: "The unjustified killing of another human being."

I asked you to point out where scripture dealt with abortion directly as you claimed. What verse have you given that deals directly with abortion" I can point out cases where abortion is far from murder. Your personal assumption of a "repeat after me" theology is that you are making abortion and murder the same and they are not always the same. They can be but not always in every case. Get away from your religious friends and go see a veterinarian and ask that person about abortion. That person will not give you the same answer as you give.

 

[gb93433]

Did you know that hundreds of people die every year going to or leaving church? *Gasp*

Guess going to church is evil. :tonofbricks:

So what is your point?

 

[gb93433]

Yes, but again this isn't an argument against the lottery as sin...or not.

Kind of like Proverbs. How many times have you heard someone say, "It won't happen to me." I am unable to find anything good about something that leads one down the path of destruction. We know that gambling establishments increase crime, lower property values and increase the need for police.

 

[Havensdad]

Pray brother's that it does not happen to me. I WON!!! I AM ONE OF THE WINNERS!! I checked my number's this morning and realized I had won and called it in. PLEASE PRAY FOR ME, I baught a fire proof breifcase and put it in there until i make my way to turn the ticket in officially. I will be very busy so I won't be on for a while, probably. I am going to hire a lawyer today and make sure I do everything right. BWE.. Thank you, Jesus! :godisgood:

LOL. Well, if you are serious, and you cannot find a church that will accept your tithe money, just PM me! :laugh:

 

[Havensdad]

Kind of like Proverbs. How many times have you heard someone say, "It won't happen to me." I am unable to find anything good about something that leads one down the path of destruction. We know that gambling establishments increase crime, lower property values and increase the need for police.

Same thing is true of a homeless shelter. I guess we should do away with those, too.

Something being unwise is COMPLETELY different than something being sinful. Parachuting is "unwise," but it should not bring church discipline, or be preached against. The same is true with gambling.

Again, a preacher that preaches against gambling, is violating scripture, and committing sin. We are not allowed to go beyond the text.

 

[Havensdad]

I asked you to point out where scripture dealt with abortion directly as you claimed. What verse have you given that deals directly with abortion" I can point out cases where abortion is far from murder. Your personal assumption of a "repeat after me" theology is that you are making abortion and murder the same and they are not always the same. They can be but not always in every case. Get away from your religious friends and go see a veterinarian and ask that person about abortion. That person will not give you the same answer as you give.

No, abortion is killing. Unjustified killing of a human, is murder. You cannot just give something a synonymous name, and say the Bible does not address it. The Bible DOES, DIRECTLY address abortion.

It does not even MENTION gambling, under any name. People that preach against it as sin are themselves, like the Pharisees, "teaching as doctrine commandments of men." That is sin.

 

[HankD]

No, abortion is killing. Unjustified killing of a human, is murder. You cannot just give something a synonymous name, and say the Bible does not address it. The Bible DOES, DIRECTLY address abortion.

It does not even MENTION gambling, under any name. People that preach against it as sin are themselves, like the Pharisees, "teaching as doctrine commandments of men." That is sin.

Well perhaps the scripture does refer to it under another name and not necessarily in a bad light either Havensdad...

Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.​

God is sovereign.​

HankD​

 

[Gina B]

Wrong again, Baptist breath.

Baptist breath? Is this a new type of insult? Please explain the origin cuz I'm laughing out loud here trying to imagine what Baptist breath smells like and why it would be bad!

 

[preachinjesus]

Ah, well I guess we're still at the place these discussions end up...nobody can show explicit Scriptures where gambling is prohibited.

To say its "implied" requires too much in order to get from point A to point B. for a subject this charged, you'd think there would be actual Scriptural backing.

 

[DHK]

Ah, well I guess we're still at the place these discussions end up...nobody can show explicit Scriptures where gambling is prohibited.

To say its "implied" requires too much in order to get from point A to point B. for a subject this charged, you'd think there would be actual Scriptural backing.

Scripture??
There are entire books written on the subject from a biblical perspective.
There are hundreds of books written on the subject from a secular perspective: self help guides, books like "Gambling Anonymous," books from various medical associations, addiction centers, etc.
Go back a few years in history and you will find hundreds of sermons preached against this vice. Please don't tell me that their sermons were void of Scripture.

To say that the Bible doesn't speak on gambling is the same as saying that the Bible doesn't speak on cocaine. It is a ludicrous statement.

 

[webdog]

Baptist breath? Is this a new type of insult? Please explain the origin cuz I'm laughing out loud here trying to imagine what Baptist breath smells like and why it would be bad!

I know there is a hint of coffee. Probably chicken and dumplings, too :laugh: