Pastor warns Christians not to play Mega Millions lotto

[Bobby Hamilton]

Scenario: I have a free evening with 3 friends. I want to spend $10 enjoying time with them. Options we consider are:

1. have a poker night and each pitch in $ for our beginning stack of chips. spend 2 hours talking and playing...some go home with more money, some with less.

2. go to a movie. don't talk at all.

3. go to a dirt-track race.

4. Go out to eat.


Is there something, BIBILCALLY, that makes option one inherently sinful?

Being from Indiana (like you) there is only one option: DIRT TRACK RACING!

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Option one, a form of gambling is a vice which many become addicted to. Look up the history. It has been the ruin of many a family. The result: poverty, broken homes, needless addiction, etc. For that reason it, in and of itself, is evil.

Your last option, if it is in your means to do so, can be enjoyable fellowship with other believers. Some of the best fellowship we have is around a table of food interacting with others.

To be fair...every one of his things can become an addiction. To not see that is being naive (not saying you are).

Obviously one is more we talk about than any other...but if you give into any one thing when you don't have the time, means...or doing so is neglectful to your duties and God, then it is a sin.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Even though this was partially a joke, it is a very good point. I would rather the money won be circulated through our church's then it be taken to Vegas and used to for whatever they do in Vegas.

My Pastor says "the devil has had that money long enough, now it's our turn" when asking what he'd do if a Christian won the lottery.

 

[freeatlast]

My Pastor says "the devil has had that money long enough, now it's our turn" when asking what he'd do if a Christian won the lottery.

It sounds like your Pastor is getting into the same bed with the devil.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

It is implied, just like abortion is.

1 Thess 4:11-12, "and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need."

2 Thess 3:10-12, "For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread."

You're making some big assumptions here.

A guy my brother went to HS with won a smaller lottery (around 5 million or so) compared to these big ones.

He still works. Used the money towards a business and is actually doing very well for himself. One of the hardest workers I know. Don't make assumptions.

 

[Havensdad]

Havensdad, do you feel that the verses I posted are relevent to gambling? If not, please explain why not.
Thanks,

None of the verses anyone has posted are directly relevant to gambling, since none of them are addressing gambling. Of course, covetousness and greed are sinful...but one can gamble without being covetous or greedy. Gambling is also CERTAINLY NOT theft, since all participants are voluntary.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

It sounds like your Pastor is getting into the same bed with the devil.

Possibly. But I can see that through many of your posts here over the years as well. Although my Pastor has never said he's okay with playing the lottery, or that he personally plays it. It's all how we interpret things. Poor rhetoric leads to that, you know.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

None of the verses anyone has posted are directly relevant to gambling, since none of them are addressing gambling. Of course, covetousness and greed are sinful...but one can gamble without being covetous or greedy. Gambling is also CERTAINLY NOT theft, since all participants are voluntary.

Agreed. Do I think that every person who plays the lottery is doing it addiction free? No. So can those verses relate to some people who play? Absolutely.


It blows my mind that God gives each and everyone of us a brain, and certain levels of common sense.

But sometimes that just gets completely tossed out the window when two Christians can't agree on one subject.

 

[gb93433]

If you were a storekeeper, would you ever refuse to give food away to someone who says he is hungry but has no money? If you were a landlord, would you ever evict anyone who has not paid rent and says he can't?

If you wouldn't do the above, how could you justify doing to "the least of these," meaning Jesus himself?

If you would do the above, how have you not 'contributed to a system' that led to homelessness and starvation? Would you say "it's their own fault" whether you know that or not, and/or would you say "let the organizations that deal with such problems help them?"

Until the time I left home when I saw people on the street approach my dad and ask for food or money he would always give them the same answer. We had a farm and always had work to do. So he would tell them that they were welcome to come to the farm with us and he would feed them and give them work to do and then pay them for the work they did. How many do you think really needed money and food. Only one came to the farm to work and eat in 18 years that I knew about.

Too many pastors are easy targets. One man came to my home and the map had an X on it. I always took a similar approach with people as my dad had. Very very few really needed help. Several years ago John Stossel did a report on TV that reported that the vast majority were not really helped. They were enabled to be lazy by so many churches.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

If you were a storekeeper, would you ever refuse to give food away to someone who says he is hungry but has no money? If you were a landlord, would you ever evict anyone who has not paid rent and says he can't?

If you wouldn't do the above, how could you justify doing to "the least of these," meaning Jesus himself?

If you would do the above, how have you not 'contributed to a system' that led to homelessness and starvation? Would you say "it's their own fault" whether you know that or not, and/or would you say "let the organizations that deal with such problems help them?"

Does God approve of people being "deadbeats" for a lack of better term? Now I'm not saying that all homeless and starving people are...but as a current landlord, I've had to evict people, and I certainly don't feel like I was contributing to "Homelessness". With me, they signed a contract, and they couldn't keep that contract. I can only be so flexible, and there has to come a time when people have to live up to what they said they could do. Especially when I go over and see them driving new cars, having TV services, etc. People have to be responsible.

Also, I don't think the "store owners giving away some free food" and the "Landlord not evicting his/her tenant" is comparing apples to apples.

Not sure what that really has to do with the OP though.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Until the time I left home when I saw people on the street approach my dad and ask for food or money he would always give them the same answer. We had a farm and always had work to do. So he would tell them that they were welcome to come to the farm with us and he would feed them and give them work to do and then pay them for the work they did. How many do you think really needed money and food. Only one came to the farm to work and eat in 18 years that I knew about.

Too many pastors are easy targets. One man came to my home and the map had an X on it. I always took a similar approach with people as my dad had. Very very few really needed help. Several years ago John Stossel did a report on TV that reported that the vast majority were not really helped. They were enabled to be lazy by so many churches.

I saw a study several years ago...done by some news outlet in Chicago...where they had a guy sit and "bum" money for about 6 weeks.

The guy's annual income would've cleared 6 figures.

 

[thegospelgeek]

None of the verses anyone has posted are directly relevant to gambling, since none of them are addressing gambling. Of course, covetousness and greed are sinful...but one can gamble without being covetous or greedy. Gambling is also CERTAINLY NOT theft, since all participants are voluntary.

Not addressing covetousness, greed, or theft. I am addressing the fact that in the Lottery you are specifically winning money at the expense of others. The verses apply to the fact that we should be concerned with others. My application of the principle is directly concerned with the poor who voluntarily play the lottery at the expense of their family who have no choice in the matter. The government is playing a shell game, providing a false hope to millions of people who spend money they do not have in hopes of winning what they can not win. All winning is someone elses loss. Are you saying that scriture does not address gaining at someone elses expense?

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Not addressing covetousness, greed, or theft. I am addressing the fact that in the Lottery you are specifically winning money at the expense of others. The verses apply to the fact that we should be concerned with others. My application of the principle is directly concerned with the poor who voluntarily play the lottery at the expense of their family who have no choice in the matter. The government is playing a shell game, providing a false hope to millions of people who spend money they do not have in hopes of winning what they can not win. All winning is someone elses loss. Are you saying that scriture does not address gaining at someone elses expense?

Again, I struggle with some of the "taking from" or "at expense of" others that you use.

Nobody forces anyone to play the lottery. It's done via free will. People choose to play the lottery.

I just don't know that I agree with those applications here.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Again, I struggle with some of the "taking from" or "at expense of" others that you use.

Nobody forces anyone to play the lottery. It's done via free will. People choose to play the lottery.

I just don't know that I agree with those applications here.

See my answer in the other thread.

Summary, not all affected people make a choice to play. Many are also misled into playing.

Assume you see someone playing a game of chance against someone who is learning impared. Now the learning impaired individual does not understand exactly what is happening and I have the odds stacked so largely in my favor that the person has no chance of winning, yet I keep taking his/her money. Would you say, "Well they are voluntarily playing." Would you stand by and allow me to continue? Would you encourage another learning impared person to play also?

I can hide behind "No one makes them play" arguments all I want, but then again Christ can also say, "They choose sin, no one made them take part."

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

See my answer in the other thread.

Summary, not all affected people make a choice to play. Many are also misled into playing.

Assume you see someone playing a game of chance against someone who is learning impared. Now the learning impaired individual does not understand exactly what is happening and I have the odds stacked so largely in my favor that the person has no chance of winning, yet I keep taking his/her money. Would you say, "Well they are voluntarily playing." Would you stand by and allow me to continue? Would you encourage another learning impared person to play also?

I can hide behind "No one makes them play" arguments all I want, but then again Christ can also say, "They choose sin, no one made them take part."

Defending the one who can't help himself vs taking from the one who can are two totally different things.

And then, tossing in semantics, it would be said that the learning imparied person can't make this decision of right mind, and that the other person is taking advantage of him because of the impariment. Does your local Shell Gas Station take advantage of a person who guys a lotto ticket? Does that cashier look for a learning impaired person to try to scam a buck out of them for a ticket? Maybe, but I'm guessing not.

For the record...I'm personally not a huge fan of gambling, because I think it's a very addictive things to take part in. A few times a year I play poker with my brother, a few of my cousins, and my grandpa's two brothers. We have a blast. We play penny poker. But I know just from playing that...that I probably shouldn't spend time in casino's.

On top of that, whether it's right or wrong, the social stigma to gambling isn't positive. As a Christian, I don't want my testimony damaged or hurt because I spend time at the casinos, etc. IMO, same thing applies to drinking. Those tend to be places that can hurt my testimony and possibly keep me from being able to bring someone to Christ.

 

[preachinjesus]

Its been a bit busy (with Easter and such things) I'll try to get some replies in here...

Kind of like Proverbs. How many times have you heard someone say, "It won't happen to me." I am unable to find anything good about something that leads one down the path of destruction. We know that gambling establishments increase crime, lower property values and increase the need for police.

These aren't good (or biblical) arguments against gambling either.

We know that when a new gas station/quickee mart goes in there is an increase of crime, lower property values, and increases the need for police. Are we going to argue against the a new QT using this logic?

 

[gb93433]

Being from Indiana (like you) there is only one option: DIRT TRACK RACING!

No, basketball.

 

[gb93433]

We know that when a new gas station/quickee mart goes in there is an increase of crime, lower property values, and increases the need for police. Are we going to argue against the a new QT using this logic?

What is QT? There are times when property values go up when that happens. I am not sure you could name a store of that type as promoting those other things unless it has forms of gambing. If you want less crime you could move to WY, SD or ND. Where I live people leave tools in their pickups all the time.

 

[preachinjesus]

Scripture??
There are entire books written on the subject from a biblical perspective.
There are hundreds of books written on the subject from a secular perspective: self help guides, books like "Gambling Anonymous," books from various medical associations, addiction centers, etc.

Oh, I see...I thought the Bible was our sole authority on all matters of morality, ethics, spirituality, and living. I didn't realize I can go and quote from some secular source and claim Scriptural authority. Is that what you're saying here?

Go back a few years in history and you will find hundreds of sermons preached against this vice. Please don't tell me that their sermons were void of Scripture.

Again, you've failed to provide an actual biblical text to support your claims. Instead you pivot and shoot back to an ancillary point. Listen, I've heard many of these sermons and I've read many of these sermons and I can't find one that takes a simple biblical passage against gambling and exegetes it. Rather I hear and read a lot of stuff that is ad hoc and unrelated to an actual biblical text.

To say that the Bible doesn't speak on gambling is the same as saying that the Bible doesn't speak on cocaine. It is a ludicrous statement.

Fine: Prove Me Wrong show me an actual biblical text dealing with gambling.

 

[preachinjesus]

Sorry for jumping in late but for those who really want a scripture, let's start here.

Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
(1 Corinthians 10:24 KJV)

Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
(1 Corinthians 10:24 ESV)

Since you've provided a specific Scripture...

It doesn't speak about gambling.

You must infer and eisogete a gambling framework onto the text to get there.

This is speaking about seeking another's benefit. Looking at the larger context this is speaking about what we eat. Paul's point in the whole pericope (vss. 23-11:1) is about how Christians are free to eat whatever they choose so long as they are clear of conscience.

Again this has nothing to do with gambling.