Pastor warns Christians not to play Mega Millions lotto

[Havensdad]

Scripture??
There are entire books written on the subject from a biblical perspective.
There are hundreds of books written on the subject from a secular perspective: self help guides, books like "Gambling Anonymous," books from various medical associations, addiction centers, etc.
Go back a few years in history and you will find hundreds of sermons preached against this vice. Please don't tell me that their sermons were void of Scripture.

To say that the Bible doesn't speak on gambling is the same as saying that the Bible doesn't speak on cocaine. It is a ludicrous statement.

There are also hundreds of sermons preached against women wearing pants, or guys having hats in Church. NONE of it, including gambling, has any scriptural support.

Please, QUOTE a scripture prohibiting gambling, or REPENT of your sin of adding to the word of God. That IS expressly forbidden.

And the Bible does speak of drugs. But it does not speak of gambling. Again, SCRIPTURE please...

 

[DHK]

There are also hundreds of sermons preached against women wearing pants, or guys having hats in Church. NONE of it, including gambling, has any scriptural support.

Please, QUOTE a scripture prohibiting gambling, or REPENT of your sin of adding to the word of God. That IS expressly forbidden.

And the Bible does speak of drugs. But it does not speak of gambling. Again, SCRIPTURE please...

I have given a few Scriptures throughout this thread. You can look for them if you want. It seems that if the Bible does not say: "Thou shalt not gamble," you won't be satisfied. The Bible doesn't say: "Thou shalt not smoke pot," either. Do you think it should? Or are there principles in the Bible that we should be looking at instead of asking the Lord to give us specific commands germane to our culture like:

"Lord, you didn't say in the Good Book not to buy a lottery ticket, so it's okay that I do, isn't it?

 

[Havensdad]

I have given a few Scriptures throughout this thread. You can look for them if you want. It seems that if the Bible does not say: "Thou shalt not gamble," you won't be satisfied.

You have not shown any scriptures that even vaguely point to gambling. But yes, you cannot just invent scripture to support your tradition. On that we agree.

The Bible doesn't say: "Thou shalt not smoke pot," either. Do you think it should? Or are there principles in the Bible that we should be looking at instead of asking the Lord to give us specific commands germane to our culture like:

The Bible forbids the use of intoxicating drugs. It does not even allude to gambling. The only mention of "chance" (which is nothing of the kind) is POSITIVE, not negative.

No, I do not think you should invent commandments to support what you were taught by some legalistic individual. Scripture forbids going beyond what is written.

 

[HankD]

Baptist breath? Is this a new type of insult? Please explain the origin cuz I'm laughing out loud here trying to imagine what Baptist breath smells like and why it would be bad!

Welch's Grape Juice and Manischevitz Matzo Crackers.

HankD

 

[thegospelgeek]

Sorry for jumping in late but for those who really want a scripture, let's start here.

Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
(1 Corinthians 10:24 KJV)

Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
(1 Corinthians 10:24 ESV)

 

[thegospelgeek]

Then we can go here;
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
(Philippians 2:4 KJV)

 

[thegospelgeek]

Then maybe here;

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
(John 13:34 KJV)

 

[thegospelgeek]

or here;

Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
(Proverbs 21:13 KJV)


I can continue if needed.

 

[thegospelgeek]

The way I see it, the morallity involved in gambling is not get rich quick(although it is a factor), nor is it about wasting money. It is in reallity taking money from those who can least afford to lose it. When it come right down to it I can rationalize all I want. I can blame the others for wasting their money, I can say well they would lose it anyway. But when the rubber hits the road, if I won 10 million in the lottery, would I be willing to look that child in the eye who was hungry because daddy spent his last $50 on lottery tickets instead of buying groceries with it?

 

[thegospelgeek]

Soory to continue but this is one of my passions;

jesus said that whatever we do to the least of these, we do to him. I certainly would not want to stand before him to hear that I took food out of Christ mouth, or close away from him, or willingly contributed to a system that caused him to become homeless.

 

[thegospelgeek]

For those who are really intrested in knowing the difference between the Lottery/Gambling and stock, investments, and or raffles;

Gambling takes money from those who lose, there can be no winner without a loser. Plain and simple I win, you lose. You win, I lose.

Stocks and investments are not setup that way. I purchase a stock beleiving that the company will use my contribution to develop a successful product. People buy the product to meet a need. The company profits, I profit, and the consumer has their need met. No one loses. It does not always work out that way due to several contibuting factors, but the idea is not to take money from a loser and give to a winner.

A Raffle is general considered a contribution to raise funds for a charitable event. Most do not plan on winning, just making a donation to the charity. For example, I know a man who spent $200 on a $100 raffle for a childrens home. Of course he won and then donated the $100 winnings back to the home. Much different than the intenet of a Lottery.

 

[DHK]

You have not shown any scriptures that even vaguely point to gambling.

There are principles.

No, I do not think you should invent commandments to support what you were taught by some legalistic individual. Scripture forbids going beyond what is written.

So what is written:

Prov.13:11 Wealth gained hastily will dwindle,
but whoever gathers little by little will increase it. ESV

1 Timothy 6:10 ESV

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

Hebrews 13:5 ESV

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”



Matthew 6:24 ESV

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.



Ecclesiastes 5:10 ESV

He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.




Ephesians 4:28 ESV

Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.



Acts 20:35 ESV

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”



1 Corinthians 6:12 ESV

“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything.



Luke 12:15 ESV

And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”



1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.



Mark 7:20-23 ESV

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”



Proverbs 28:22 ESV

A stingy man hastens after wealth and does not know that poverty will come upon him.



2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV

For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.



Exodus 20:17 ESV

“You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”



Acts 20:33-35 ESV

I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”



Acts 4:34 ESV

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold

--The Bible says much on the subject, just not in the same words that you would like it to. It does not say: "Thou shalt not buy a lottery ticket." It doesn't have to. It directs the issue in many other ways using many other principles. The principle of greed and covetousness are outstanding. This verse in particular is what stands out when one buys a lottery ticket:

Prov.13:11 Wealth gained hastily will dwindle,
but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

 

[jbh28]

For those who are really intrested in knowing the difference between the Lottery/Gambling and stock, investments, and or raffles;

Gambling takes money from those who lose, there can be no winner without a loser. Plain and simple I win, you lose. You win, I lose.

Stocks and investments are not setup that way. I purchase a stock beleiving that the company will use my contribution to develop a successful product. People buy the product to meet a need. The company profits, I profit, and the consumer has their need met. No one loses. It does not always work out that way due to several contibuting factors, but the idea is not to take money from a loser and give to a winner.

A Raffle is general considered a contribution to raise funds for a charitable event. Most do not plan on winning, just making a donation to the charity. For example, I know a man who spent $200 on a $100 raffle for a childrens home. Of course he won and then donated the $100 winnings back to the home. Much different than the intenet of a Lottery.

I bought a lottery ticket and considered it a contribution to the winner and did not plan on winning.

ok, I actually didn't buy a lottery ticket...

 

[Alcott]

Soory to continue but this is one of my passions;

jesus said that whatever we do to the least of these, we do to him. I certainly would not want to stand before him to hear that I took food out of Christ mouth, or close away from him, or willingly contributed to a system that caused him to become homeless.

If you were a storekeeper, would you ever refuse to give food away to someone who says he is hungry but has no money? If you were a landlord, would you ever evict anyone who has not paid rent and says he can't?

If you wouldn't do the above, how could you justify doing to "the least of these," meaning Jesus himself?

If you would do the above, how have you not 'contributed to a system' that led to homelessness and starvation? Would you say "it's their own fault" whether you know that or not, and/or would you say "let the organizations that deal with such problems help them?"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh yes & then scripture also says this ...

Ecclesiastes 10:19

19 A feast is made for laughter,
wine makes life merry,
and money is the answer for everything.

 

[Havensdad]

There are principles.

No there are not.

So what is written:

Prov.13:11 Wealth gained hastily will dwindle,
but whoever gathers little by little will increase it. ESV

This says nothing of sin. This would also apply to a business that took off overnight. Shall we prohibit success?

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

Gambling does not equate to love of money. By your logic, hard eared success would also be sinful.

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

See above. This says nothing about gambling.

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Gambling does not equate to serving money. Under this logic, being financially successful from ANY source is sinful.

He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

This interpretation would also prohibit hard earned success.

Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.

This is prohibiting theft, not gambling. Do you exegete ALL scripture this way? I hope you are not a pastor!

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

This has nothing to do with gambling. Interpreting this passage the way you have (completely contrary to what it is actually saying), would also prohibit inheritance, help from in-laws, and charity.

“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be enslaved by anything.

This has nothing to do with gambling. Some people are enslaved to cookies...does that mean its sinful for EVERYONE to eat them?

And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

This is about motivation, not means. This would prohibit gambling for the sake of covetousness; It would also prohibit working hard and earning your money for the sake of covetousness. It does not prohibit working hard and being successful, nor does it prohibit gambling.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

This has nothing to do with gambling. Gambling does not equal greed. By your logic, working hard and being successful would ALSO be prohibited.

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Covetousness is prohibited. Not gambling.

A stingy man hastens after wealth and does not know that poverty will come upon him.



2 Thessalonians 3:10 ESV

For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.



Exodus 20:17 ESV

“You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”



Acts 20:33-35 ESV

I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”



Acts 4:34 ESV

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold

You quote a bunch of verses that have nothing to do with gambling. NOTHING here about gambling...

--The Bible says much on the subject, just not in the same words that you would like it to. It does not say: "Thou shalt not buy a lottery ticket." It doesn't have to. It directs the issue in many other ways using many other principles. The principle of greed and covetousness are outstanding. This verse in particular is what stands out when one buys a lottery ticket:

Try again. Quit adding to scripture. It is expressly prohibited (unlike gambling.) It needs to prohibit gambling, not greed or covetousness. Gambling is NOT the same as greed. You can gamble with altruistic motives. Again, the Bible is SILENT about gambling.

 

[ChristianLady1978]

Baptist breath? Is this a new type of insult? Please explain the origin cuz I'm laughing out loud here trying to imagine what Baptist breath smells like and why it would be bad!

I am about to die laughing over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 It's that the worst insult someone can come up with, that's pretty cool. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[gb93433]

There are also hundreds of sermons preached against women wearing pants, or guys having hats in Church. NONE of it, including gambling, has any scriptural support.

Please, QUOTE a scripture prohibiting gambling, or REPENT of your sin of adding to the word of God. That IS expressly forbidden.

And the Bible does speak of drugs. But it does not speak of gambling. Again, SCRIPTURE please...

A great example of today's heresy becoming tomorrow's orthodoxy.

 

[thegospelgeek]

If you were a storekeeper, would you ever refuse to give food away to someone who says he is hungry but has no money? If you were a landlord, would you ever evict anyone who has not paid rent and says he can't?

If you wouldn't do the above, how could you justify doing to "the least of these," meaning Jesus himself?

If you would do the above, how have you not 'contributed to a system' that led to homelessness and starvation? Would you say "it's their own fault" whether you know that or not, and/or would you say "let the organizations that deal with such problems help them?"

In an honest answer to your question, I would not be able to refuse in either situation if I felt either were being honest. Of course this is hypothetical since I am not in this situation. In reality I realize that I may react differently, but I hope I would not. One must balance the passage in Matt with 2Thes 3:10 and discern the need. The situation that I mentioned in regard to the Lottery is real to me. I can not, in good faith, take money from a child because the Father or Mother makes bad decisions.

If you saw a hungery baby would you feed it? Or would you say "That is someone elses bad decision so someone else can deal with it."

Please don't misunderstand me. I realize that my stance will not change the world, but I also feel that if all Christians would be more aware and less selfish a large portion of the problem would go away.

 

[thegospelgeek]

No there are not.



This says nothing of sin. This would also apply to a business that took off overnight. Shall we prohibit success?



Gambling does not equate to love of money. By your logic, hard eared success would also be sinful.



See above. This says nothing about gambling.



Gambling does not equate to serving money. Under this logic, being financially successful from ANY source is sinful.



This interpretation would also prohibit hard earned success.



This is prohibiting theft, not gambling. Do you exegete ALL scripture this way? I hope you are not a pastor!




This has nothing to do with gambling. Interpreting this passage the way you have (completely contrary to what it is actually saying), would also prohibit inheritance, help from in-laws, and charity.



This has nothing to do with gambling. Some people are enslaved to cookies...does that mean its sinful for EVERYONE to eat them?




This is about motivation, not means. This would prohibit gambling for the sake of covetousness; It would also prohibit working hard and earning your money for the sake of covetousness. It does not prohibit working hard and being successful, nor does it prohibit gambling.



This has nothing to do with gambling. Gambling does not equal greed. By your logic, working hard and being successful would ALSO be prohibited.



Covetousness is prohibited. Not gambling.




You quote a bunch of verses that have nothing to do with gambling. NOTHING here about gambling...


Try again. Quit adding to scripture. It is expressly prohibited (unlike gambling.) It needs to prohibit gambling, not greed or covetousness. Gambling is NOT the same as greed. You can gamble with altruistic motives. Again, the Bible is SILENT about gambling.

Havensdad, do you feel that the verses I posted are relevent to gambling? If not, please explain why not.
Thanks,