Pastor's advice on Calvinism

[evangelist6589]

Met with a pastor yesterday after service and he gave me some advice. First the church's position on the issue (which I already knew) and second although they do not attack Calvinists and accepted me as a member I should not mention it in conversation, or SS open discussion (as SS in our church is discussion based and not lecture oriented). Perhaps some have left the church because of me (he did not say) but I have noticed our SS class is not as big as before for whatever reason. He just gave me advice and I have a better idea.

I won't mention Calvinism or Reformed theology by name, I will just discuss its doctrines when appropriate and the various scriptures in its defense. In reality I am not preaching Calvinism I am preaching the Bible and if people reject it they reject the Bible. However as Mitchell said once if thats all I talk about I am a "Cage-Calvinist" which is a label to avoid. A model example would be WOTM. If WOTM holds to Calvinist theology (not sure) Comfort does a great job of not using it to cause division. While I admire brother Paul Washer (do not agree with everything he says) perhaps he may be causing division in the church because of his strong Calvinist views when division is not glorifying Christ. I don't know.

Looking for ideas as maybe 1/100 persons in this church or any Arminian church will actually take the time to read a book or hear a podcast and look up the many verses in defense of Reformed theology as most will reject it without question. I do not treat Arminian theology this way and personally read and own Chosen But Free. I can't be something I am not and I must stand for the truth in gentleness and respect. At the moment I am locked at the church and was forced into attending there or else I would be at a Calvinist church. So I need to make the best of where I am at.

 

[salzer mtn]

If these people totally get p_ssed at you they will never believe anything you say. Every time you open your mouth a big frown will come across their face.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Perhaps some have left the church because of me (he did not say) but I have noticed our SS class is not as big as before for whatever reason. He just gave me advice and I have a better idea.

If your pastor - who is not a Calvinist and shepherds a non-Calvinist church - has asked you to stop bringing this up in Sunday School then I think you should do so and stop thinking of "better ideas" to keep doing what you are doing.

In reality I am not preaching Calvinism I am preaching the Bible and if people reject it they reject the Bible.

Is this an example of the types of things that you say to these people? If it is, I can understand why the pastor talked to you. You have said here that if you are not a Calvinist then you have rejected the Bible.

Do you believe that non-Calvinists are lost?

I can't be something I am not...At the moment I am locked at the church and was forced into attending there or else I would be at a Calvinist church.

No one should have to be. I don't know why you have to be. I don't know why you can't be in a Calvinist church? I understand your wife won't go, but if you truly feel that non-Calvinists have rejected the Bible, then you should be at a Calvinist church even if you have to go without your wife.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I won't mention Calvinism or Reformed theology by name, I will just discuss its doctrines when appropriate and the various scriptures in its defense. In reality I am not preaching Calvinism I am preaching the Bible and if people reject it they reject the Bible. However as Mitchell said once if thats all I talk about I am a "Cage-Calvinist" which is a label to avoid. A model example would be WOTM. If WOTM holds to Calvinist theology (not sure) Comfort does a great job of not using it to cause division. While I admire brother Paul Washer (do not agree with everything he says) perhaps he may be causing division in the church because of his strong Calvinist views when division is not glorifying Christ. I don't know.

Looking for ideas as maybe 1/100 persons in this church or any Arminian church will actually take the time to read a book or hear a podcast and look up the many verses in defense of Reformed theology as most will reject it without question. I do not treat Arminian theology this way and personally read and own Chosen But Free. I can't be something I am not and I must stand for the truth in gentleness and respect. At the moment I am locked at the church and was forced into attending there or else I would be at a Calvinist church. So I need to make the best of where I am at.

I truly grieve for you!:tear:

 

[kyredneck]

Best just stay home, don't go, if this is the sort of damage you're doing. Have mercy on those people.

 

[abcgrad94]

He just gave me advice and I have a better idea.

I won't mention Calvinism or Reformed theology by name, I will just discuss its doctrines when appropriate and the various scriptures in its defense. In reality I am not preaching Calvinism

Your pastor has asked you specifically NOT to mention your views, but YOU think you have a BETTER idea? Seriously? And you wondered why people consider you arrogant?

Proverbs 6:16-19 lists 7 things the Lord hates. Sewing discord among the brethren is mentioned in verse 19. By refusing to listen to your pastor, by refusing to leave a church with whose doctrines you disagree, by persisting to speak about it, you are doing just this--sewing discord.

 

[prophet]

Your pastor has asked you specifically NOT to mention your views, but YOU think you have a BETTER idea? Seriously? And you wondered why people consider you arrogant?

Proverbs 6:16-19 lists 7 things the Lord hates. Sewing discord among the brethren is mentioned in verse 19. By refusing to listen to your pastor, by refusing to leave a church with whose doctrines you disagree, by persisting to speak about it, you are doing just this--sewing discord.

The Bible doesn't say "the brethren", in verse 19.

You add to the Word, to try to make a wise saying equal doctrinal disagreement in the NT Church.

This verse is referring to the purposeful attempt to divide up a family, who share inherited lands.

Sowing discord, means just that.


Young buck needs to go plant a church of people who are unchurched, through actual evangelism.
Then he will see how many sheep wanna hear his views.

 

[evangelist6589]

If these people totally get p_ssed at you they will never believe anything you say. Every time you open your mouth a big frown will come across their face.

Its not everyone just a few.

 

[evangelist6589]

Your pastor has asked you specifically NOT to mention your views, but YOU think you have a BETTER idea? Seriously? And you wondered why people consider you arrogant?

Proverbs 6:16-19 lists 7 things the Lord hates. Sewing discord among the brethren is mentioned in verse 19. By refusing to listen to your pastor, by refusing to leave a church with whose doctrines you disagree, by persisting to speak about it, you are doing just this--sewing discord.

I am what I am. I just won't mention it by name, but in reality the scripture is quite clear on what the Bible teaches and I won't reject the Bible.

 

[evangelist6589]

The Bible doesn't say "the brethren", in verse 19.

You add to the Word, to try to make a wise saying equal doctrinal disagreement in the NT Church.

This verse is referring to the purposeful attempt to divide up a family, who share inherited lands.

Sowing discord, means just that.


Young buck needs to go plant a church of people who are unchurched, through actual evangelism.
Then he will see how many sheep wanna hear his views.

God calls His elect to salvation, and many in Denver and other areas have rejected the gospel as God has not given them Faith and Repentance. God adds to the number of the church.

 

[evangelist6589]

If your pastor - who is not a Calvinist and shepherds a non-Calvinist church - has asked you to stop bringing this up in Sunday School then I think you should do so and stop thinking of "better ideas" to keep doing what you are doing.



Is this an example of the types of things that you say to these people? If it is, I can understand why the pastor talked to you. You have said here that if you are not a Calvinist then you have rejected the Bible.

Do you believe that non-Calvinists are lost?



No one should have to be. I don't know why you have to be. I don't know why you can't be in a Calvinist church? I understand your wife won't go, but if you truly feel that non-Calvinists have rejected the Bible, then you should be at a Calvinist church even if you have to go without your wife.

No I do not believe that. However I believe they are wrong and or in ignorance.

 

[Winman]

Evangelist, you need to go to that Reformed church down the street. You are causing problems in that church which is WRONG.

These people understand Calvinism better than you think, and they REJECT it. They do not believe the Bible teaches Calvinism like you do.

Go to a church where they hold the same views as you and quit causing trouble.

 

[sag38]

Why is this not in the Calvinism section where it belongs?

Did God specifically call you to be the savior of this church to rescue them from their "ignorance" and "rejection?" Unless you are under a direct mandate from God you need to be careful because you are disturbing with Christ's bride.

 

[ShagNappy]

Evan is a troll or is documenting his intentional attempt to get kicked out of the church because he is not man enough to be the spiritual head of his household. He is led around by his wife and is throwing a temper tantrum because he cannot be where he wants to be. In between spewing hate for his fellow church members he blames his problems on his wife and is obvious very bitter and angry towards her. He needs counseling and to learn how to be the head of his house. This forum is nothing more than his substitutionary wife where he can says the things he wants to say to her but cannot in the real world.

Pray for him, but stop encouraging him.

 

[John of Japan]

Back in the day before computers, there was a Bible concordance done by a man named Crudens. You other old timers will remember it: Young's for the young, Strong's for the strong and Crudens for the crude!

A nickname for Crudens was "Crudens the Corrector," because he thought it his duty to set everyone straight around him. But this turned out to be impossible, and throughout his life he was therefore in and out of mental institutions.

Evan, are you listening? You'll not only harm the church of Jesus Christ but your own self (and your wife) by trying to "correct" the church's doctrine.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Evan is a troll or is documenting his intentional attempt to get kicked out of the church because he is not man enough to be the spiritual head of his household. He is led around by his wife and is throwing a temper tantrum because he cannot be where he wants to be. In between spewing hate for his fellow church members he blames his problems on his wife and is obvious very bitter and angry towards her. He needs counseling and to learn how to be the head of his house. This forum is nothing more than his substitutionary wife where he can says the things he wants to say to her but cannot in the real world.

Pray for him, but stop encouraging him.

Well said, for this post I would like to nominate you ShagNappy for an honorary Baptist Board PHD in OP Psychology.

 

[Rippon]

I have agreed with elements of what several posters have said here --even winman's.

Evan, I think it's time for you to do a whole lot of listening instead of talking and correcting. I don't think it's right for a husband and wife to go to separate churches. You agreed early in your marriage that you would go to the church you are with. Don't make waves. You are where you are and you can learn from it. A few years from now your wife may gain some biblical understanding that she doesn't have now. But this is the time to be willing to learn from your non-Calvinistic brothers and sisters.

You've heard the expression that you have two ears and one mouth. Put it in practice. As much as you think you can instruct others --this may be a valuable lesson in the wisdom of learning from others.

I think you are closer to 40 years of age than 30...am I right? You should have learned some life lessons about these kind of situations early on.

But please refrain from gossiping about your wife --it's just not right. Others don't do it --you should not bring her up in the ways you have on this and other discussion boards.

 

[Van]

I have been attending church, always Baptist, for more than 60 years. I have never been scolded by anyone (member/servant or office holder such as a Pastor or Elder). If you consider one another as more important than yourself, you are not pugnacious or factious. Are you not to submit to those in authority over you?

And btw, since there is not a shred of support for the TULI in scripture, it is you and not the Arminian leaning folks who are rejecting scripture as written, and imposing your man-made doctrines.

Read Matthew 23:13 and note that unsaved men were "entering heaven" and so were seeking God. Therefore the T of the TULI is mistaken doctrine. Note they were blocked by those presenting mistaken doctrine, and therefore the I of the TULI is mistaken doctrine.

Then look at 2 Thessalonians 2:13 and note folks are chosen through faith in the truth, therefore the U of the TULI is mistaken doctrine. And finally look at 1 Peter 2:1 where false teachers deny the Master who bought them, demonstrating Christ died as a ransom for all, and not just the elect.

 

[Aaron]

Its not everyone just a few.

The "few" is just the tip of the iceberg. If you had a talk from the pastor, that means you're being seen to cause trouble.

I warned you not to marry until you were agreed. You rejected that advice. Now you're "forced" to attend a church with which you do not agree. (You're not, really forced.)

I warned you that Calvinists and noncalvinists, loving as they may be, cannot work together. You've rejected that advice. Now you're being seen as a trouble-maker.

Maybe you'll listen to this advice. Peaceably leave the church. The marital issues that ensue will have to be something you deal with (which you wouldn't have had to if you'd heeded my advice the first time). Trust me. This is to be preferred to being asked to leave the church. No one will see it that you've been persecuted for the sake of the Gospel. It will be seen that you have been a troublemaker. Stories will go round in the gossip that are either false, or at best mischaracterized, and you will not be able to fight it.

That bears repeating. You . . . will . . . NOT . . . prevail.

Leave peaceably, and it will be said you couldn't stay because of doctrinal differences and you will be thought wiser for the action.

 

[Revmitchell]

I won't mention Calvinism or Reformed theology by name, I will just discuss its doctrines when appropriate and the various scriptures in its defense. In reality I am not preaching Calvinism I am preaching the Bible and if people reject it they reject the Bible. However as Mitchell said once if thats all I talk about I am a "Cage-Calvinist" which is a label to avoid. A model example would be WOTM. If WOTM holds to Calvinist theology (not sure) Comfort does a great job of not using it to cause division. While I admire brother Paul Washer (do not agree with everything he says) perhaps he may be causing division in the church because of his strong Calvinist views when division is not glorifying Christ. I don't know.

As a pastor I would see to it that you were dismissed from the fellowship. You are a trouble maker and a divider. Your motive is evil and ungodly. Shame on you.