Well, drop them into downtown Detroit, about 30 miles from where i live, and in middle of the night...
"Be afraid, very afraid!"
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Pastors carrying guns
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
- Status
Well, drop them into downtown Detroit, about 30 miles from where i live, and in middle of the night...
"Be afraid, very afraid!"
More dangerous than Serbia or Kosovo ... my isn't that a stirling endorsement for the freedom to carry weapons in the US? And many on the BB say the weapons keep them safe. LOL
Just shows that human natures are same regardless where at!
And that God still allows us to protect ourselves if need be!
The people to be cautious of are generally not the ones carrying legally with proper training. They're the criminals.
I agree. But that is not always true. Of course the only universal is there are no universals.
Because those who intend to do harm carry firearms and will use them against unarmed people. Wolves attacking the sheep. There are unsolved murders scattered about our relatively peaceful rural countryside. Owner of a small store found shot in his place of business. Someone kicked in the front door of an elderly woman and killed her. Home invasions, in addition to breaking and entering, are starting to become common.
Everyday, on the local news, are reports of random shootings, drive by shootings, and/or car jackings, and such in the larger metro areas. Gang activity in on the increase.
Live in fear. NO! When my time comes, the Lord will take me home. Until then, I still have the responsibility to protect my family, friends, and possibly strangers, to the best of my ability. If I can deter a rape, murder, beating of an elderly person, I will to the best of my ability, too.
Should I let a killer murder a store clerk, if I can prevent his/her death?
Should I let a rapist have his will, if I can stop him?
Should I let my family die, if I can stop a gun toting criminal attack?
I pray that in my lifetime I'll never have to face those situations or anything similar. Do I live in fear that it will happen? No. There's nothing paranoid about choosing to defend my family (and myself), when I can. Or should I cower down and watch them die because I was "paranoid" about having the means to defend them?
I haven't yet needed a weapon either, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be prepared.
I think it is a misunderstanding, especially in this context.
I don't carry a pistol because I am afraid. I carry a pistol because I may need it to save someone's life. I don't have First Responder training in CPR and the medical stabilization of the injured because I am afraid, I trained because I may need to help save a life.
Each state has different laws.
A permit holder should know the laws of the state and proceed accordingly. In Texas, certain places are automatically off-limits (bars, schools, federal property, hospitals, sports stadiums, etc.) and all other businesses must post a specific statement that is found in the legal code (30.06) that disallows the carrying of firearms in the building even by permit holders.
Those who legally carry who want/need to enter those places can secure their firearms in their vehicles (I have a hidden gun safe in my car). However, there are businesses that post "no gun" signs, apparently for the psychological benefit of folks who are scared of guns, so that people think that no guns will be present in the restaurant or facility. In truth, these property owners should know full well that the sign has no legal force and may be cheerfully ignored by a person with a conceal-carry permit.
It's the same as explained above.
It certainly depends on state law and what is posted. I have few difficulties.
This individual from Serbia is probably a fine man, but the Serbians were the ones who laid siege to Sarajevo and indulged in horrific acts of "ethnic cleansing."
During the siege of Sarajevo, Serbian artillery destroyed the apartment building where my great aunt lived (she was too old and feeble to go down to the shelter) and she was killed in the building collapse. So the Serbian army killed my great aunt, a citizen not a soldier. How noble of them!
The Serbs were most responsible for sowing terror in the former Yugoslavia, so I hardly think that his perspective is the most valid.
Just yesterday, I had someone tell me that "true Christians" are pacifists. I pointed out that "Christian pacifism" did not liberate my mother and her family from the Nazi labor camp in which they were imprisoned in early 1945, but rather the Red Army... an officially atheistic organization.
It's easy to be an armchair pacifist when there's nothing at stake, but when there's danger about and lives are at stake, it is good to have some options for saving innocent lives.
And remember, just because a person is carrying a firearm doesn't necessarily mean that their first choice will be to pull it out and shoot someone else. It is always a weapon of last resort.
I owned one gun in my life, I owned a shotgun when I was a teenager. I used to hunt frequently. I enjoyed it, and I always tried to be careful.
One day my best friend and I were hunting when we spotted a wild pig. My friend shot the pig, the pig ran away. It was probably foolish, but we both chased after the wounded pig. We were running through thick underbrush.
Suddenly a vine caught on my shotgun and it discharged. Thankfully, I was running with the gun pointed downward, and it blew a huge hole in the ground inbetween me and my friend. He was only about 10 feet in front of me as we chased the pig. I can still see the smoke rising up from that hole in the ground between me and my friend.
Well, we found the wounded pig and killed it, we brought it home and my buddy's mom made sausage and pork chops and all sorts of good stuff from that pig.
But I couldn't get over that I almost killed my friend. It really bothered me. A week later I traded my shotgun to a neighbor for a surfboard, and I have never owned a gun since.
I have no problem with Christians owning guns, and I think it is our right to own guns for hunting, or for personal protection. But they are very dangerous, and a person should be careful before owning any firearm, especially if they have children.
My 2 cents.
One day my best friend and I were hunting when we spotted a wild pig. My friend shot the pig, the pig ran away. It was probably foolish, but we both chased after the wounded pig. We were running through thick underbrush.
Suddenly a vine caught on my shotgun and it discharged. Thankfully, I was running with the gun pointed downward, and it blew a huge hole in the ground inbetween me and my friend. He was only about 10 feet in front of me as we chased the pig. I can still see the smoke rising up from that hole in the ground between me and my friend.
Well, we found the wounded pig and killed it, we brought it home and my buddy's mom made sausage and pork chops and all sorts of good stuff from that pig.
But I couldn't get over that I almost killed my friend. It really bothered me. A week later I traded my shotgun to a neighbor for a surfboard, and I have never owned a gun since.
I have no problem with Christians owning guns, and I think it is our right to own guns for hunting, or for personal protection. But they are very dangerous, and a person should be careful before owning any firearm, especially if they have children.
My 2 cents.
I can take you to some places here in the B'Ham metro where you'll be sayin'
"Where is the Po-Po when you need um?????"
How bout walkin' on foot through New Orleans' Ninth Ward---even in the daylight----how about Baton Rouge's Winborne/Istrouma/Glen Oaks areas???
When I first became pastor of the church I am in presently----I let people know that I am a amateur WW2 hobbiest----some of um said---Oh, then---you need to talk to Brother So & So---he fought the Germans over in Europe---and he's been shot before!!
So I was talking with Brother So & So-----tell me about your wound you received in Europe----where was it you got shot??
He said----I didn't get shot in Europe---I chased Hitler all over France-Belgium and Holland and into Germany---and nary a scratch on me!! I came home and got a job delivering milk in Birmingham and one nite a black fella walked up to me---pulled out his gun and said---I'm gonna shoot you you old White man---I'm gonna shoot you!!!
He shot him in the abdomin---and the bullet lodged so near to his spinal cord that the doctor said it would be more dangerous to remove the bullet than to let it stay there----that man has been walking around for 40 years with a bullet lodged near his spinal cord----he has a special card that allows him a passing access to any sort of body screening done by xray---like the airport and courthouses use
Imagine that, though-----walk all over Europe during the hottest war in World history----without so much as a scratch-----then come home to Birmingham----and get shot!!!!:tear::tear:
Thats why folks on here so choose to "Carry" heat!!!!
:type::type:
Last edited by a moderator:
Do you lock your doors at night? Do you lock your car ever? You are the king at creating strawmen on this board. If you answer yet to any of my questions that you avoid every time this subject comes up then you are a hypocrite.
There is a difference between being prudent and being afraid. I remember when I was a kid there was a public service ad on the radio that said, "Lock your car. Don't help a good boy go bad."
I just find it somewhat contradictory for those who say they are Christian and trust God in all things to then be so fearful and un-trusting that they feel they have to carry weapons. Let's be honest, if you feel you have to have a weapon with you at all times, even when preaching you are letting fear rule your life. I will not let fear rule my life!
As I said, I have been fortunate enough to travel to many countries and have never needed a weapon. I am not as anti-gun as you probably believe in these posts. People do have the right to bear arms according to the Constitution ... though the 2nd amendment is open to various interpretations, but that is another topic. I am simply trying to point out that many people's real faith is in their weapon and they do let fear rule their lives. As I said, I will not let fear rule my life!
Last edited by a moderator:
You said it well.
There is a difference between being prudent and being afraid. I agree with that 100%.
Because I am prudent, I'm NOT afraid.
Yes, I lock my car doors, even though my clunker wouldn't be a temptation to anyone.
Yes, I put a stop kick stick under the knob after locking my front door each night. (Our front door has been kicked in.) I'm not afraid to go to sleep at night.
Yes, I keep an adequate amount of gas in my car so I don't get stranded on a dark road at night. I'm not afraid if I have to leave home unexpectly late at night.
If I didn't pay our county taxes I'd be afraid the sheriff would throw us out of our home. Those taxes are paid and I have no fear of an eviction notice.
The list of prudent things we do to reduce fear can go on quite a bit. So, I'll just add one more.
There's a concealed carry permit in my billfold. Right behind my insurance card and emergency use only credit card. Each is in place, in case the need arises. Not because I'm afraid. Rather than I have on hand what is needed, what is indeed prudent, in the applicable situations.
So are police officers afraid because they carry weapons? What about security officers?
Being perfectly honest, I carry a pistol because:
(1) If something bad happens, It is my nature to protect others and I'm going to be involved whether or not I am armed... But I would like to be prepared and have some options.
(2) I'm built like a linebacker, so if something bad happens, the bad guys are probably going to involve me since I will likely be perceived as the biggest physical threat. Having been the latest person among my peers al my life, this has been demonstrated over and over. When I worked in retail and we took shoplifters into custody (I was always unarmed in those days, although a surprising number of shoplifters were illegally carrying weapons), I was the one they usually tried to assault if they resisted.
(3) September 15, 1999, a gunman entered Wedgwood Baptist Church in Fort Worth and murdered seven people and severely injured seven more, most of the victims were teenagers. He had several minutes to do his evil work before an off duty police officer from across the street entered the building with his service pistol. The gunman committed suicide moments later. I know the church well (nearly joined on two occasions), knew/know the pastor, and know a surprising number of people who were pinned down by the gunman in the room. I also interviewed the families of those murdered and went to some of the funerals as part of the local media. One responsible person with a pistol could have ended that horrible event reducing the number of victims by at least half, if not more. That's when I started thinking about purchasing a pistol to carry and applying for a permit.
(4) A few years ago, a disturbed teenager started threatening members of our youth group and insinuating that he was going to bring a gun and shoot everyone. We contacted the police and he faced some consequences for making a terrorist threat. However, if he decides to follow through on that threat, I, as a youth leader, would like to be able to defend the lives of the students entrusted to me. That's not fear, that's being responsible.
(5) I have a near relative who has a number of psychological and drug addiction issues and has been in trouble with the law a number of times, including prison time. He also has a history of assaulting others with weapons, including police officers. I don't have a choice as to whether or not he is going to be in my proximity or in the proximity of my wife. Therefore I am prepared to defend my wife and my wife carries a stun gun because she doesn't feel comfortable carrying a firearm.
(6) I worked as a bodyguard for the children of a prominent wealthy family for nearly seven years and have had training and experience in protective tactics. On two occasions I had to draw a weapon (specifically, an ASP tactical baton) but i did not have to use it. Simply drawing the weapon shut down the aggression immediately since they realized they might ultimately win the fight against me, but they were going to get severely injured in the process. That saved both the aggressors and me from getting hurt and I could discharge my duties without further incident. Even though I am certified in the use of the ASP, I am not legal to carry it at this time because it is considered a deadly force weapon. However it is legal for me to carry a pistol, so I do.
I could go on, but clearly you don't have the right to sit on your moral/spiritual highhorse and make the blanket assertion that those who carry weapons are simply fearful people. Many, if not most of us who do it carry for perfectly sane, prudent, logical reasons that are not motivated by fear.
I have no illusions about my pistol. I would be a fool to have faith in it to protect me just because I am carrying it. It doesn't make be bullet-proof. In fact, if I draw it when someone is shooting, I become a prime target of the aggressive gunman, but that's okay. At least a child, teenager, woman or man is not a target for those moments. Furthermoe, it is not magic and it probably won't prevent someone who is suicidally planning to kill others from following through with their plan -- although I may be able to end their rampage very quickly and save lives/injury. Using a firearm, even is those situations, is full of risk and much harder to do effectively than many people imagine. So I analyze every room I enter to develop a quick strategic plan regarding how I would handle a threat. In some places, like my ome, the church sanctuary or the youth facilities, the plan is very highly refined and I know the key locations to position myself for cover and the places where a gunman would be vulnerable to someone approaching them quickly in order to end their aggression while they entering and exiting rooms/areas.
Last edited:
Well according to your logic you do not trust God because you took action to protect from possible negative actions of others. [edit]
Last edited by a moderator:
I totally agree too
I carry for protection against bodily harm,
but for more serious protection I carry the Bible
Travel with me where I travel and walk with me where I walk without weapons. Are would you be too afraid?
Ultimately I have no fear, as I know where I'll be when the Lord calls me home. For myself, I do have some dread (a better word, IMHO) of what I may have to go through if I can't defend myself. And, what's worse, again IMHO, to have to watch it happen to others, because I can't defend them either. Especially those most close to me.
BTW, a thought just crossed my mind, as I'm typing. Basically, this thread is about carrying a modern weapon that can hurl a projectile at another being. For those opposed, can you apply your arguements to slingshots and small pebbles?
I travel to Mexico frequently to do missions work- and yes, I have fears. Several of my pastor and missionary friends there have been kidnapped, beaten, robbed and killed.
Paul evidently had fears also-
And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, “Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent, for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.” Acts 18:9,10
Nevertheless, being afraid really isn't the question here.
- Status