Pastors carrying guns

[Crabtownboy]

The whole idea that because someone is carrying a gun that they are "afraid" is ludicrous. I carry jumper cables in my car; that doesn't mean I go around going, "Oh my goodness! What if my battery dies! {shake}"

If you even carry it into the pulpit, to me it shows paranoia.
As an aside how many of your regular attenders carry weapons?

A gun is a tool. I carry it, for the same reason I carry jumper cables; you never know when it might come in handy. I believe, as a Christian, that I am responsible to help whoever I can; whether it is a guy with a dead battery, or a woman being mugged.

A Bowie knife is a tool also, why not carry it also for close in work?

 

[corndogggy]

But a whole lot more accidental shootings and accidental deaths.

I doubt there would be less crime. Probably more second degree murders.

You need to do some research on Switzerland. Every male adult is required to own a gun. And gun crime is extremely low. It totally goes against what folks like you try to assume.

You'll find that elsewhere. Cities, states, and even entire countries, have a higher crime rate if they try to have strict gun laws.

 

[corndogggy]

I believe, as a Christian, that I am responsible to help whoever I can; whether it is a guy with a dead battery, or a woman being mugged.

I do think people carry for the wrong reasons. Protecting others like this probably isn't a good one. I mean, in this situation, if she's being mugged, that means she's already got a gun pointed at a vital organ. What are you going to do, shoot the guy? One little muscle contraction of a trigger finger and that woman is dead. Sometimes it's best to live to fight another day.

One issue that comes up more than you'd think is an under cover cop arresting a prostitute. All the girl has to do is yell RAPE, and some hero like you tries to attack the cop. She may go free, and you may go to jail.

 

[corndogggy]

I just find it somewhat contradictory for those who say they are Christian and trust God in all things to then be so fearful and un-trusting that they feel they have to carry weapons. Let's be honest, if you feel you have to have a weapon with you at all times, even when preaching you are letting fear rule your life. I will not let fear rule my life!

Why would I be afraid when I'm the guy with the gun? :thumbsup:

 

[corndogggy]

The US Constitution protects our right to bear arms.

My hubby is a concealed weapons permit holder, as are several
other men in our church. Let one goofy crazy person walk in
and try to do harm, and he will get taken out in a matter of
seconds.

It happened up north here in Colorado. People were killed, and
the female security guard finally took the person out and protected
the rest of the congregation.

She was able to do so because she was separate from the rest of the congregation, volunteering as a dedicated guard, as it should be. She and the shooter both were outside of the crowd which is the only reason why she had a clear shot.

You get a few guys embedded in the middle of a crazy crowd with the shooter on the outside of that crowd and I imagine you'll get different results. It's a false sense of security to think that a few CCDW holders embedded in the middle can take out anybody. All it takes is one shot with everybody off guard and there's instant chaos with no clear shot. Shootings don't happen like in the movies, it's messy.

If you're worried about it, have rotating dedicated guards that are separated from the pack.

 

[corndogggy]

I owned one gun in my life, I owned a shotgun when I was a teenager. I used to hunt frequently. I enjoyed it, and I always tried to be careful.

One day my best friend and I were hunting when we spotted a wild pig. My friend shot the pig, the pig ran away. It was probably foolish, but we both chased after the wounded pig. We were running through thick underbrush.

Suddenly a vine caught on my shotgun and it discharged. Thankfully, I was running with the gun pointed downward, and it blew a huge hole in the ground inbetween me and my friend. He was only about 10 feet in front of me as we chased the pig. I can still see the smoke rising up from that hole in the ground between me and my friend.

You tried to be careful as you and a friend ran through thick woods towards each other with a round in the chamber and the safety off? And that was only "probably" foolish?

 

[mandym]

If you even carry it into the pulpit, to me it shows paranoia.
As an aside how many of your regular attenders carry weapons?

You do not like guns, you do not want anyone to carry one so you want to paint anyone using or carrying them in the worst possible light. I mean really who cares what you personally see as paranoia? All you have established is that you need over the top views and reactions in order to demonize the things you do not like or agree with.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Hey, you didn't like my lifeboat thing? Good, thought provoking questions though - that should be answered honestly.

Yes, I carry - as I have said.
My Bible and extras are close-by. I'm not a prepper, but I do have lots of water, canned, and dry goods stored.

There are AEC units everywhere where I work, but I'll admit none at home. Even stocked up on first aid and meds my family needs in the event of national crisis of some kind.

Being prepared is wise.

I feed the hungry when I'm able, but almost never give them money. I might buy them a dinner, but never put the money intheir hands. That's just me.

Your last two q's were a little rhetorical, but I get it. I think the better question to most Christians is are you doing anything besides tapping on a computer!

Again, thanks for your point of view!

 

[Monster]

Hey, you didn't like my lifeboat thing? Good, thought provoking questions though - that should be answered honestly.

Yes, I carry - as I have said.
My Bible and extras are close-by. I'm not a prepper, but I do have lots of water, canned, and dry goods stored.

There are AEC units everywhere where I work, but I'll admit none at home. Even stocked up on first aid and meds my family needs in the event of national crisis of some kind.

Being prepared is wise.

I feed the hungry when I'm able, but almost never give them money. I might buy them a dinner, but never put the money intheir hands. That's just me.

Your last two q's were a little rhetorical, but I get it. I think the better question to most Christians is are you doing anything besides tapping on a computer!

Again, thanks for your point of view!

Nawww! It was a good analogy, metaphor and simile all rolled into one. I just like to push people with questions, I love the whole Socratic thing when I'm not on the defensive

My experience (I'll grant that's a limited sample) with gun-totters has been wholly negative. It seems to me like they can't wait for a chance to engage in action and unleash the "wrath of god (small g) upon the heathen". They're the same people who seem to measure the quality of outreach to the homosexual and lesbian communities via who can cast the hate filled vitriol and angry animosity towards them. I'm not saying that about anyone here.

The wife and I run a children's Bible camp full time as volunteers and work part time jobs to support ourselves financially. We just barely make it, so even if I carried, I couldn't afford the ammo to do "god's justice against the evil horde" much good.

I just shoot the brains outa' whistle pigs. I have some great pics, anyone interested?

 

[corndogggy]

My experience (I'll grant that's a limited sample) with gun-totters has been wholly negative. It seems to me like they can't wait for a chance to engage in action and unleash the "wrath of god (small g) upon the heathen".

I've been cornered in a parking lot, choked and given death threats on my own front porch, had an armed guy hiding in the bushes on our farm's property line for me like a danged sniper, had some guys come in the middle of the night when 4wd camping and chainsaw trees across all the exit routes... yeah I carry. You can call it whatever you want. I call it having a bunch of crazy people in this world that I don't trust any more than I can throw them.

I just shoot the brains outa' whistle pigs. I have some great pics, anyone interested?

So people who carry are crazy. But it's cool if you blow a groundhog's brains out then take a picture of it. Gotcha.

 

[Crabtownboy]

You do not like guns, you do not want anyone to carry one so you want to paint anyone using or carrying them in the worst possible light. I mean really who cares what you personally see as paranoia? All you have established is that you need over the top views and reactions in order to demonize the things you do not like or agree with.

Such silly statements on your part.

I grew up with guns. I used rifles and shotguns for hunting when I was growing up. I do not dislike them. What I see as a problem, and it shows on this BB, are paranoid people who have them and tote them around with them all the time ... even into the pulpit as one admitted. I see them letting their lives be ruled by fear, regardless of their protestations.

As I have said before, I have traveled in may places and have never needed a weapon. Very few people really need them.

 

[mandym]

I see them letting their lives be ruled by fear, regardless of their protestations.

Do you lock your doors?

 

[Havensdad]

What follows is addressed in general not specifically to you, Oldtimer.

Good, cause I am going to answer it.

The argument that you want to "be prepared" or that you're carrying a tool, or the comparison to life boats and the other metaphors that run abundant in the preceding posts;

- Do you carry first aid kits on your person?

I do, though the amount of medical supplies one can carry on your person is limited. I do have a large first aid kit in my car.

HOWEVER: the likelihood of such things actually saving someone's life with things like band-aids, is remote. Saving someone's life with a gun, whether from a person or animal, is virtually certain (if you come upon such a situation).

Apples and oranges.

- Do you carry AED units on your person?

This is just dumb. A person can hardly walk around carrying even a SMALL defibrillator. Besides the fact that they are bulky, they are fairly fragile.

Again, this hardly compares.

- What about common rescue medications?

Not on my person, though we do have some in the car. Again, carrying around such things on your PERSON is ridiculous, and hardly able to be compared.

- Do you carry an ample supply of water, food, clothing, shelter?

In my car? Yes.

- Do you carry extra Bibles on your person to hand out when needed/required?

Yes, in my car. And Gospel tracts in my wallet.

- Do you stop every time you see someone that needs aid?

I don't always stop just because the person is pulled over. But if they are in obvious need (an elderly lady trying to change a tire), I do.

- Do you feed the homeless and hungry when they ask?

Yep.

- What do you carry with you to minister to widows and orphans?

Depends. My bible, always. Also if I know of a need, I try to fill it.

- What do the sparrows worry about? The lilies?

Sparrows were not given commands by God. We were. We are commanded to protect our children, to be prepared, to protect those weaker than ourselves, etc., etc. In fact, the scriptures say that a person who does not care for his family (including protection) is worse than a tax-collector.

So tell me, have you done as scripture commands? Have you sold your purse, to buy a weapon? Or do you, because of a coward's heart, hide behind scripture which has been ripped out of context, to promote laziness and pacifism?

Be prepared right? Have what you need at hand right? Don't get caught out without that all important "whatever" right? Or is it only a gun that satisfies the be prepared requirements.

Be reasonably prepared. I can easily carry a gun on me. So it would be stupid, lazy, and cowardly not to.

This time, unlike my list of questions in the alcohol thread, I'm attempting to be more than a little rhetorical. But still and all, we love our right to bear arms, it makes us feel powerful, in control and able. I own guns, I just never felt the need to carry them around and I'd be happy to compare living situations to anyone. I ran my own business for two decades, carried loads of cash, moved through some of the worst areas Baltimore had to offer and still, never needed a gun.

Why do you judge your brother? I cannot speak for anyone else, but the only "feeling" I get from having my gun on me, is the uncomfortable pinch of the strap around my ankle. I would much rather leave it at home; but such pacifistic shirking of one's duty to an individual's family and others, is for cowards.

I'm not condemning anyone's choice but I always find interesting what others set as high priorities.

I am condemning yours. You should have a gun on you.

It's a fascinating discussion. And to be clear, if you ("you" meaning bad guys, most Baptites are welcome) illegally entered my home and threatened my wife, my hound dogs or maybe even me, I'd paint the walls with yer innards :thumbsup:

Whats fascinating is the hypocrisy. :tonofbricks:

 

[Monster]

Good, cause I am going to answer it.



I do, though the amount of medical supplies one can carry on your person is limited. I do have a large first aid kit in my car.

HOWEVER: the likelihood of such things actually saving someone's life with things like band-aids, is remote. Saving someone's life with a gun, whether from a person or animal, is virtually certain (if you come upon such a situation).

Apples and oranges.



This is just dumb. A person can hardly walk around carrying even a SMALL defibrillator. Besides the fact that they are bulky, they are fairly fragile.

Again, this hardly compares.



Not on my person, though we do have some in the car. Again, carrying around such things on your PERSON is ridiculous, and hardly able to be compared.



In my car? Yes.



Yes, in my car. And Gospel tracts in my wallet.



I don't always stop just because the person is pulled over. But if they are in obvious need (an elderly lady trying to change a tire), I do.



Yep.


Depends. My bible, always. Also if I know of a need, I try to fill it.



Sparrows were not given commands by God. We were. We are commanded to protect our children, to be prepared, to protect those weaker than ourselves, etc., etc. In fact, the scriptures say that a person who does not care for his family (including protection) is worse than a tax-collector.

So tell me, have you done as scripture commands? Have you sold your purse, to buy a weapon? Or do you, because of a coward's heart, hide behind scripture which has been ripped out of context, to promote laziness and pacifism?



Be reasonably prepared. I can easily carry a gun on me. So it would be stupid, lazy, and cowardly not to.



Why do you judge your brother? I cannot speak for anyone else, but the only "feeling" I get from having my gun on me, is the uncomfortable pinch of the strap around my ankle. I would much rather leave it at home; but such pacifistic shirking of one's duty to an individual's family and others, is for cowards.



I am condemning yours. You should have a gun on you.



Whats fascinating is the hypocrisy. :tonofbricks:

Nice answers, a bit angry in tone but more power to ya'!

It was an interesting beginning to my postings here in another thread, this has followed suit and you've certainly continued with the same spirit. I believe I was called a coward in that thread too, you've upped the ante. Now I can add hypocrite, lazy, stupid and pacifist to the list. And yeah, I can infer all I want.

And I'm all of the above IF I don't carry a gun on me but I'm all of the above IF I mention that I'll defend my wife, dogs and home? I'm very confused by your turn and turn about.

Oh and I never once said, nor will I say that no one should carry a gun. I will always question their reasoning though.

I edited to add that I never once owned a purse, I've carried my wife's purse though and even if I did, I own me some fire power already, no need to sell it. How else would I be able to make a statement like "I'd paint the walls with yer innards". I wasn't implying that I was gonna use a brush and roller or anything like that.

 

[Monster]

I've been cornered in a parking lot, choked and given death threats on my own front porch, had an armed guy hiding in the bushes on our farm's property line for me like a danged sniper, had some guys come in the middle of the night when 4wd camping and chainsaw trees across all the exit routes... yeah I carry. You can call it whatever you want. I call it having a bunch of crazy people in this world that I don't trust any more than I can throw them.



So people who carry are crazy. But it's cool if you blow a groundhog's brains out then take a picture of it. Gotcha.

Well, for your first point...you should carry. You're living under a legitimate threat. The OP was about Pastors carrying guns, often in their churches. It morphed into other topics. I questioned the need, yours sounds legitimate.

Back the bus up with your second point, go back re-read. I never once implied, not even a little bit that gun owners/carriers are crazy. And yeah it's cool that I kill vermin, I don't tend to group them even with the least of humans.

You're welcome to do that though, if you feel need...

...See how things can be implied? Doesn't feel good does it? I don't know how you view vermin, humans or otherwise.

 

[Monster]

Such silly statements on your part.

I grew up with guns. I used rifles and shotguns for hunting when I was growing up. I do not dislike them. What I see as a problem, and it shows on this BB, are paranoid people who have them and tote them around with them all the time ... even into the pulpit as one admitted. I see them letting their lives be ruled by fear, regardless of their protestations.

As I have said before, I have traveled in may places and have never needed a weapon. Very few people really need them.

That's very well stated (I've no opinion on the "silly statement" bit) and been my experience.

I'm genuinely curious though, how would you label/classify/describe the process? Errr...I'm probably going to ask this wrong but here goes, what does a Christian call the sum total of your specific experiences? Luck, fortune, divine providence, fate, faith, etc?

We lived amidst gangs, thugs, drugs, shootings and more. We originally moved into what was a great neighborhood that was tight-knit, quiet and peaceful. It devolved so fast that if you stopped to blink you'd miss part of the disintegration. We weren't happy with the changes but did see the opportunity to speak the Gospel into needy lives. We were never threatened and felt that peace that passes understanding the entire time. I never once felt a need to take up arms. So, I'm curious, how do you nut-shell that?

 

[Crabtownboy]

I'm genuinely curious though, how would you label/classify/describe the process? Errr...I'm probably going to ask this wrong but here goes, what does a Christian call the sum total of your specific experiences? Luck, fortune, divine providence, fate, faith, etc?

Perhaps all of the above. It is impossible to know for sure, but to me that is the way God works ... in ways that cannot be proved nor disproved. There are times I believe God worked in my life, but I cannot prove it. In fact, I will start a thread on how I have seen God move, again, in my life this month. I will title the thread, "God Did It Again."

God did not call us to safety. God did not call us to fear others. God does not call us to comfort. God did call us to follow him where he leads and at times that may be uncomfortable.

We lived amidst gangs, thugs, drugs, shootings and more. We originally moved into what was a great neighborhood that was tight-knit, quiet and peaceful. It devolved so fast that if you stopped to blink you'd miss part of the disintegration. We weren't happy with the changes but did see the opportunity to speak the Gospel into needy lives. We were never threatened and felt that peace that passes understanding the entire time. I never once felt a need to take up arms. So, I'm curious, how do you nut-shell that?

You did not exhibit hostility nor vulnerability to them. Hostility and fear will attract them like bees being drawn by the nectar of a flower. Most people do not realize how much you can do by simply not being hostile and by acting confident ... IMHO.

 

[Havensdad]

And I'm all of the above IF I don't carry a gun on me but I'm all of the above IF I mention that I'll defend my wife, dogs and home? I'm very confused by your turn and turn about.

Why do you abandon your responsibility to protect your wife (and others) when you leave your home? Do you only have a responsibility to protect her why you are home?

And for the record, I would never protect my property with deadly force. If someone wants my T.V. or laptop, they can take it...

Oh and I never once said, nor will I say that no one should carry a gun. I will always question their reasoning though.

Of course, Matthew 7 (and James) says this is sinful, but hey, who cares?

Defending others is a responsibility for a man. Its not optional.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Defending others is a responsibility for a man. Its not optional.

And the Bible says we are to do this by:

Matther 25: 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

James 1:27
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
James 1:26-27 (in Context) James 1 (Whole Chapter)

This is just a sample of instructions on who we are to take care of and defend ... but it is not about defending with deadly force.

 

[Havensdad]

And the Bible says we are to do this by:







This is just a sample of instructions on who we are to take care of and defend ... but it is not about defending with deadly force.

And by...

Luk_22:36 He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

That was Jesus talking, FYI. Swords are not for cutting up vegetables, in case you didn't know. A man who refuses to defend his wife and children (and others who are weaker than himself), is a coward, and is worse than a tax collector; hiding behind pseudo-Christianity.