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Featured Pelagianism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Jul 24, 2022.

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  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    You are right that this is a problem.
    We have a situation on this board where we are allowed to accuse one another of heresy, but not of Semi-Pelagianism. But a moderator then opens a thread entitled Semi-Pelagianism and gives a definition of it but gets all stressed when people start discussing it.
    The first thing that needs to be done is to ban the words 'heresy' and 'heretic.' Then doctrines can be discussed without all this blame game.
    I write as someone who has been accused of heresy for believing in Reformed Baptist Theology. It doesn't matter; I wear it as a badge of honour, but it does show how people who should know better splash the word around and fail to apologize.
     
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    @Van doesn't have to reply to me, much less 'acquiesce' (?). It is you who is making a big deal out of it and prolonging the agony.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, members have often been accused of semi-Pelagianism (which is a declared heresy).

    The issue is people use the heresy as a misnomer.

    I agree members should not be called heretics. But saying they hold heresies is just as bad.

    I disagree that we should ban the word "heresy" when it is used to speak of historical heresies (like Pelagianism, Aranism, semi-Pelagianism, etc.).
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I have said with regard to 1 Corinthians 2:14 that unregenerate individuals can hear, understand and respond affirmatively to Spiritual Milk, the fundamentals of the Gospel, but not Spiritual Solid Food. This view is no where found in Semi-Pelagianism and I expect you know it.

    Since salvation depends 100% on God and 0% on man, it is slander to claim my view is Semi-Pelaganism. And it is just as much a slander to claim the Holy Spirit's work is not a required prerequisite for any fallen individual to seek God or trust in Christ.

    Likewise, post #139 misrepresents me yet again.
     
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  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I do too.
     
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    This is because people keep attributing to people beliefs that are historical heresies when those people reject the historical heresies.

    You seem to want to say that people affirm historical heresies without calling those views "heresies" or those people "heretics".

    Do you really think that is right?

    It sounds like you just want to get around BB rules by saying that they hold those heresies without identifying the heresy as such.

    The problem is every person on this board so far has rejected both Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism, but a few Calvinists (apparently you included) keep on call attributing to them those beliefs.

    You ask for Van to clarify, again, that he does not hold to semi-Pelagianism. But you are unwilling to accept his previous two (at least) clarifications.
     
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    A few Calvinists just like calling non-Calvinists heretics....not by using the word "heretic" but by attributing to them historical heresies that those non-Calvinists have rejected.

    That is dishonest. It is an attempt to shut down an argument via slander. Usually that type of behavior is seen when one cannot defend their position.

    If a member says he does not believe something then he does not believe that something.
     
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  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    So, it seems to be your idea that accusing someone of holding a heretical doctrine is fine, so long as you leave the word "heresy" out of the discussion?
     
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  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Paul and Isaiah plainly stated that none seek God on their own , were they both wrong?
    van states that unsaved persons can receive the spiritual truths of the bible, yet Paul disagrees with him, do you disagree with Paul then here?
     
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  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    How many seek after God apart form the working of the Holy Spirit according to isaiah and Paul?
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The same reasoning should be applied when one states that holding to the accepted reformed and majority Baptist views regarding the Psa view of Calvary, and yet that view gets ridiculed as being "not biblical, not true, making God out to be pagan etc!"
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    To echo Van's post, nobody seeks after God except that God draw them.
     
  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Do they understand and receive by faith the truth of the bible on their own , by exercising inherit faith and their free will then?
     
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Van just posted that the lost person can hear and receive spiritual milk on their own, but Paul stated even milk is for babes in Christ, not any lost!
     
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Depends on what you mean.

    It is fair to question any of the theories of atonement (including mine). Historical comparisons is fine. Expressing an opinion they are unbiblical is fine.

    This applies to most beliefs.

    The problem is not expressing opinions. It is not even historical comparisons.

    The problem is attributing to members beliefs that those members have denounced.
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Then argue that with Van. Don't lie about him.
     
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Or in stating that one theology must be non biblical and wrong period, such as some have stated Psa view is, but most one should say is that I think bible affirms or rejects that, but not that it means is categorically wrong!
     
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The problem is though van seems to shift around his positions at times!
     
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. There is nothing wrong with a member saying another's view is wrong.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @Van has been very consistent since he has been a member here.

    He told you what he believes. Argue he doesn't and see what happens (last warning).
     
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