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Penal Substitution Theory
- Thread starter agedman
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The reason why was Aaron asked.Hmmm...this was not even touched. I wonder why that is?
Leviticus 6: 8 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
9 “Command Aaron and his sons, saying, ‘This is the law for the burnt offering: the burnt offering itself shall remain on the hearth on the altar all night until the morning, and the fire on the altar is to be kept burning on it.
10 ‘The priest is to put on his linen robe, and he shall put on undergarments next to his flesh; and he shall take up the ashes to which the fire reduces the burnt offering on the altar and place them beside the altar.
11 ‘Then he shall take off his garments and put on other garments, and carry the ashes outside the camp to a clean place.
12 ‘The fire on the altar shall be kept burning on it. It shall not go out, but the priest shall burn wood on it every morning; and he shall lay out the burnt offering on it, and offer up in smoke the fat portions of the peace offerings on it.
Again....to emphasize to those willing to examine their views...thus far no member here who insists that the Bible teaches the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement has been able to provide even one verse stating the Theory.
What we have seen is the claim that the Ransom Theory and all other atonement emphasis under a Victorious Christ theme is somehow a "novel idea".
We have seen members post verses we all hold true, except they claim those verses teach what is not actually said (secret messages for the indoctrinated?).
We have members condemn others for holding a strict Biblical view.
But we have not seen the Penal Substitution Theory in the actual text of God's Word.
What we have seen is the claim that the Ransom Theory and all other atonement emphasis under a Victorious Christ theme is somehow a "novel idea".
We have seen members post verses we all hold true, except they claim those verses teach what is not actually said (secret messages for the indoctrinated?).
We have members condemn others for holding a strict Biblical view.
But we have not seen the Penal Substitution Theory in the actual text of God's Word.
Well, we have not seen the word Trinity in the actual text of God's word, yet it is clearly deduced from God's holy writ.
Yet you haven't addressed it head on thus far.
I just dropped in briefly to let everyone know how very thankful I am in the quality of the posts, the Scriptures used, and the sweet interaction which (imo) is bringing edification to any readers.
I doubt and minds were changed, but one goal is that (again imo) most have at least a bit better understanding of the issues facing any theory of atonement.
Lastly, I would encourage each contributor to the thread to keep seeking God’s wisdom. Do not rely upon your own intellectual ability, but allow the Holy Spirit to bring that which God desires you to understand.
did any read the link I provided concerning my own view of atonement?
Just wondering.
Do you think it worthy to open a thread and explore the Victorious Christ view?
Got to go…
I doubt and minds were changed, but one goal is that (again imo) most have at least a bit better understanding of the issues facing any theory of atonement.
Lastly, I would encourage each contributor to the thread to keep seeking God’s wisdom. Do not rely upon your own intellectual ability, but allow the Holy Spirit to bring that which God desires you to understand.
did any read the link I provided concerning my own view of atonement?
Just wondering.
Do you think it worthy to open a thread and explore the Victorious Christ view?
Got to go…
LOL. It's because the lesson in the object is too obvious.Hmmm...this was not even touched. I wonder why that is?
I read it. No one denies that Christ was victorious. He rose from the dead, didn't He? But if a thread is started it should be about our union with Christ, because the Victory is only one element of that.
What in this thread is being called Penal Substitution is another.
{10}The third incomparable benefit of faith is that it unites the soul with Christ as a bride is united with her bridegroom. By this mystery, as the Apostle teaches, Christ and the soul become one flesh [Eph. 5:31--32]. And if they are one flesh and there is between them a true marriage -- indeed the most perfect of all marriages, since human marriages are but poor examples of this one true marriage -- it follows that everything they have they hold in common, the good as well as the evil. Accordingly the believing soul can boast of and glory in whatever Christ has as though it were its own, and whatever the soul has Christ claims as his own. Let us compare these and we shall see inestimable benefits. Christ is full of grace, life, and salvation. The soul is full of sins, death, and damnation. Now let faith come between them and sins, death, and damnation will be Christ's, while grace, life, and salvation will be the soul's; for if Christ is a bridegroom, he must take upon himself the things which are his bride's and bestow upon her the things that are his. If he gives her his body and very self, how shall he not give her all that is his? And if he takes the body of the bride, how shall he not take all that is hers?
{11}Here we have a most pleasing vision not only of communion but of a blessed struggle and victory and salvation and redemption. Christ is God and man in one person. He has neither sinned nor died, and is not condemned, and he cannot sin, die, or be condemned; his righteousness, life, and salvation are unconquerable, eternal, omnipotent. By the wedding ring of faith he shares in the sins, death, and pains of hell which are his bride's. As a matter of fact, he makes them his own and acts as if they were his own and as if he himself had sinned; he suffered, died, and descended into hell that he might overcome them all. Now since it was such a one who did all this, and death and hell could not swallow him up, these were necessarily swallowed up by him in a mighty duel; for his righteousness is greater than the sins of all men, his life stronger than death, his salvation more invincible than hell. Thus the believing soul by means of the pledge of its faith is free in Christ, its bridegroom, free from all sins, secure against death and hell, and is endowed with the eternal righteousness, life, and salvation of Christ its bridegroom. So he takes to himself a glorious bride, "without spot or wrinkle, cleansing her by the washing of water with the word" [Cf. Eph. 5:26--27] of life, that is, by faith in the Word of life, righteousness, and salvation. In this way he marries her in faith, steadfast love, and in mercies, righteousness, and justice, as Hos. 2[:19--20] says.
{12}Who then can fully appreciate what this royal marriage means? Who can understand the riches of the glory of this grace? Here this rich and divine bridegroom Christ marries this poor, wicked harlot, redeems her from all her evil, and adorns her with all his goodness. Her sins cannot now destroy her, since they are laid upon Christ and swallowed up by him. And she has that righteousness in Christ, her husband, of which she may boast as of her own and which she can confidently display alongside her sins in the face of death and hell and say, "If I have sinned, yet my Christ, in whom I believe, has not sinned, and all his is mine and all mine is his," as the bride in the Song of Solomon [2:16] says, "My beloved is mine and I am his." This is what Paul means when he says in I Cor. 15[:57], "Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ," that is, the victory over sin and death, as he also says there, "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" [I Cor. 15:56].
Luther, On Christian Liberty (1520)
{11}Here we have a most pleasing vision not only of communion but of a blessed struggle and victory and salvation and redemption. Christ is God and man in one person. He has neither sinned nor died, and is not condemned, and he cannot sin, die, or be condemned; his righteousness, life, and salvation are unconquerable, eternal, omnipotent. By the wedding ring of faith he shares in the sins, death, and pains of hell which are his bride's. As a matter of fact, he makes them his own and acts as if they were his own and as if he himself had sinned; he suffered, died, and descended into hell that he might overcome them all. Now since it was such a one who did all this, and death and hell could not swallow him up, these were necessarily swallowed up by him in a mighty duel; for his righteousness is greater than the sins of all men, his life stronger than death, his salvation more invincible than hell. Thus the believing soul by means of the pledge of its faith is free in Christ, its bridegroom, free from all sins, secure against death and hell, and is endowed with the eternal righteousness, life, and salvation of Christ its bridegroom. So he takes to himself a glorious bride, "without spot or wrinkle, cleansing her by the washing of water with the word" [Cf. Eph. 5:26--27] of life, that is, by faith in the Word of life, righteousness, and salvation. In this way he marries her in faith, steadfast love, and in mercies, righteousness, and justice, as Hos. 2[:19--20] says.
{12}Who then can fully appreciate what this royal marriage means? Who can understand the riches of the glory of this grace? Here this rich and divine bridegroom Christ marries this poor, wicked harlot, redeems her from all her evil, and adorns her with all his goodness. Her sins cannot now destroy her, since they are laid upon Christ and swallowed up by him. And she has that righteousness in Christ, her husband, of which she may boast as of her own and which she can confidently display alongside her sins in the face of death and hell and say, "If I have sinned, yet my Christ, in whom I believe, has not sinned, and all his is mine and all mine is his," as the bride in the Song of Solomon [2:16] says, "My beloved is mine and I am his." This is what Paul means when he says in I Cor. 15[:57], "Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ," that is, the victory over sin and death, as he also says there, "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law" [I Cor. 15:56].
Luther, On Christian Liberty (1520)
This thread is closed
I am not talking about what things are called.
In Scripture we do see that the Father is God, that the Spirit is God's Spirit, and that the Son is God. It IS in Scripture.
But Penal Substitution Theory is not found anywhere in the text of Scripture.
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