Pentecostal Man’s Glossolalia Echos NBA Rosters

[tamborine lady]

Aaaaaaaaaaah yes, and speaking of emotions, it's not so wrong to have emotions! I have seen some pretty excited Baptists when they are singing and praiseing the Lord!!

They shout praise the Lord, Amen, thank you Jesus, etc. They clap their hands when they are singing. And you KNOW they are not speaking in tongues!!

So I don't think emotions has anything to do with it.

Never the less, Bless DHK Lord, however you see fit.

Peace,

Tam

 

[Brian30755]

<<<One cannot read through 1Cor.14 with an objective mind and still say that tongues is for today. Literally every verse in that chapter puts such limitations of the speaking of tongues that it is impossible for one to speak in tongues in a Biblical manner today.>>>

A few verses from 1st Corinthians Chapter 14:

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Yes, I have read the rest of the chapter. And I can certainly see that, in this chapter, Paul is explaining to the Church at Corinth how un-important the gift of tongues is compared to the gift of prophecy. It seems clear to me that, at this church, people were speaking in tongues with no interpreter there, which of course only caused confusion (just as it does today if somebody is speaking in tongues during church without an interpreter present. I understand, it does absolutely nothing to edify the church.)

But I still can't see how you come to the conclusion that speaking in tongues should have ended long ago. Chapter 14 certainly doesn't say that. In Chapter 14, Paul is telling the Church at Corinth to stop running around speaking in tongues in church so much because it is doing nothing but causing confusion. It does the same thing today (causes confusion) IF it is not interpreted.

But if someone in church today gives a message in tongues and someone interprets it and this message does what it is supposed to do (builds-up the church), then where in Chapter 14 do you find that this is wrong?

Thanks,

Brian

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Brian30755:
<<<One cannot read through 1Cor.14 with an objective mind and still say that tongues is for today. Literally every verse in that chapter puts such limitations of the speaking of tongues that it is impossible for one to speak in tongues in a Biblical manner today.>>>

A few verses from 1st Corinthians Chapter 14:

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Paul said this concering himself. He went on three missionary journeys throughout Macedonia, Asia, and even parts of Europe. God gave him the gift of tongue that he might use them for the edification of believers in the churches of other nations. He used tongues in a Biblical way as God directed him to do. The Corinthians were abusing the gift. Therefore he could rightly say: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all." He was not thanking God that the Corinthians were speaking in tongues.

[Q]

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. [/QB]

This verse is a rebuke to those that speak in tongues. Those that spoke in tongues could not edify the church. Greater is he that prophesieth. The statement is clear. Therefore prophesy. How could you miss this so obvious meaning, and try to make it say something other than what it says.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

How do you miss the plain meaning of these verses. They are all a rebuke to the Corinthian use of tongues. The key word in these verses is edification, or understanding. With tongues there was no edification. With prophesying there was. Therefore prophesy. The above verse points out the absolute confusion that reigned in the church not only from tongues, but also when the church came together and some spoke in psalm, and some taught a doctrine, and some spoke in tongues, and some had a revelation--all at the same time. It was utter chaos. God is not a God of confusion, but of order. The tongues only added to the confusion.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

A little taste of your own medicine. Why do you post this verse when 99.999999999% of Charismatic churches never follow it?? Almost all Charismatic Churches, people stand up and speak in tongues without any interpretation at all. And it is not limited to just two or three, as the Bible stipulates here. Neither is it just two or three at the most. Neither is turn by turn. Neither are they real actual foreign languages--unknown to the speaker but known to someone in the congregation. It is pure gibberish. A cheap imitation of the real thing--a fraud.

28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

That is right, but Charismatics, as noted above don't adhere to this rule either. They don't believe in interpretation. They just get up and speak their gibberish. Otherwise the Bible in plain language tells them to sit down and "shut-up!" Speak to yourself and to God has nothing to do with tongues, but everything to do with God. That is what prayer is; not what tongues are.

Yes, I have read the rest of the chapter. And I can certainly see that, in this chapter, Paul is explaining to the Church at Corinth how un-important the gift of tongues is compared to the gift of prophecy. It seems clear to me that, at this church, people were speaking in tongues with no interpreter there, which of course only caused confusion (just as it does today if somebody is speaking in tongues during church without an interpreter present. I understand, it does absolutely nothing to edify the church.)

But I still can't see how you come to the conclusion that speaking in tongues should have ended long ago. Chapter 14 certainly doesn't say that. In Chapter 14, Paul is telling the Church at Corinth to stop running around speaking in tongues in church so much because it is doing nothing but causing confusion. It does the same thing today (causes confusion) IF it is not interpreted.

And there is still no interpretation of the gibberish that goes on today. What languages do people speak today when the speak in tongues? What languages are they translated into and for what purpose? Can you tell me that? Gibberish is not a language and was not known in the New Testament. It was only known among pagan relgions.

But if someone in church today gives a message in tongues and someone interprets it and this message does what it is supposed to do (builds-up the church), then where in Chapter 14 do you find that this is wrong?

That is not what people do today so your argument is both moot and a strawman. People today don't speak in Biblical tongues (real foreign languages); they speak in gibberish.
DHK

 

[Phillip]

Tongues is VERY clear in the Bible. I don't think anybody can argue that tongues that occurred at Pentecost was people hearing the message in their own languge (tongue).

Now, the funny part is that a church denomination would base a MAJOR doctrine on something that Paul was discouraging the use of in Corinthians. Sure Paul says, thank goodness I speak in more tongues. He was a missionary. He needed to speak to the people he visited.

He was really correcting the problems in the Corinth Church using diplomatic techniques. What good did it do for someone to speak in a language nobody understands in church if nobody speaks that language. This would be like me speaking in German at my church. It might edify me, if I can understand it, but otherwise it edifies no-one. Whereby if I prophecy (or teach) it edifies the entire church.

Paul does restrict tongues and even churches that use tongues in the wrong way today don't even follow his rules.

Paul said to have an interpreter. We had a Russian come to our church and speak. He spoke in Russian and had a translator translate it to us. Exactly the way Paul described to do it, if we have to do it.

Paul was using a "tongue in cheek" statement when he says, although he may talk in any language including the language of the angels, if you read the whole subject in context, this is very clear.

WHY a church would put such a big doctrine on something Paul was discouraging is beyond me. Besides, they don't even use it right. Acts tells how it ws used.

Tongues and unknown tongues simply means languages and unknown languages. An unknown language to your church is a language nobody speaks, such as Russian, if you are a United States church. THIS is the reason Paul says you need a translator.

What in the WORLD is so difficult about this?

 

[Brian30755]

The Bible doesn't amount to anything anymore anyway, does it? If the Bible says for women to keep silence in the church (especially concerning tongues), we just rationalize it away and ignore it as if it didn't even exist.

DHK,

Are women allowed to speak in your church?

 

[csmith]

Thanks Phillip

So many people skirt around the issue that "tongues" were known languages. It seems so elementary.

 

[tragic_pizza]

"Known" to someone, I suppose. I cannot recall ever being in a situation where people of every possible languiage were in one place, so that a tongue could be translated rather than interpreted.

But whatever.

I'm convinced that we are all so enamoured of our personal theological interpretations that we will never be able to fulfill John 17. Ichabod.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Brian30755:
The Bible doesn't amount to anything anymore anyway, does it? If the Bible says for women to keep silence in the church (especially concerning tongues), we just rationalize it away and ignore it as if it didn't even exist.

DHK,

Are women allowed to speak in your church?

Absolutely not! Not while I am preaching. And if tongues were in operation, they would not be allowed to do so either. We don't even have women open the service in prayer.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
"Known" to someone, I suppose. I cannot recall ever being in a situation where people of every possible languiage were in one place, so that a tongue could be translated rather than interpreted.

But whatever.

I'm convinced that we are all so enamoured of our personal theological interpretations that we will never be able to fulfill John 17. Ichabod.

If it was known to someone in that congregation then both the interpreter, and the person in the congregation that the tongues was to edify would obviously know what the language was. In other words someone would know the language. That was one of the purposes of tongues. Also according to 1Cor.14:21,22, it was a sign to the Jews. They would also know. But if you don't have any Jews present in your church, again tongue is unbiblical.
DHK

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

DHK,

I would argue that nobody should be talking while the pastor is preaching, not just women. It is just a sign of respect and part of orderly worship. But now, it seems to me that we are off topic, so let me set the ship right and take us back to the original humor so that those of us with a sense of humor might have a good laugh today:

Pentecostal Man’s Glossolalia Echos NBA Rosters

MURFREESBORO, TN – When new believer Gentry Tate attended Murfreesboro Assembly of God’s Friday Night Signs and Wonders meeting, he wasn’t expecting to make use of his acute knowledge of professional basketball. However, when traveling preacher Morgan Sheppard gave the altar call for those who wanted to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Tate turned to the NBA for guidance. “He laid hands on me, and I didn’t want to let him down, so I spouted the weirdest gibberish I could come up with: ‘Kirelenko, Mutombo, Potapenko, you name it’. I guess it worked - everyone around me praised Jesus.”

The 21 year old native of Murfreesboro was led to Christ by best friend Cole Smith earlier this year. “Cole said I needed to get baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost, so he dunked me down at Buffalo Creek. I didn’t talk in tongues, so I guess it didn’t take. He suggested I see an anointed preacher like Reverend Sheppard. On the way over, Cole kinda prepped me for the infilling. He said I just needed to do some baby talk and the Holy Ghost would take over from there. Boy am I glad I was watching the Spurs-Jazz game before I went.”

“His prayer language is beautiful,” said long time Assembly attender June Dunton. “When he rattled off that string of ‘Stojakovic Ilgauskis Pau Gasol,’ I was just mesmerized. I never heard anything like it before.” For his part, Tate simply didn’t want to embarrass Reverend Sheppard. “Everybody he slapped on the forehead did a tongue, but I was at a loss for words. Until I remembered Tim Duncan’s slam dunk. Then I went for it with a, ‘Hallelujah Manu Ginobili.’ I heard everybody around me saying ‘yes Lord,’ so I figured I had the Holy Ghost. Then I let loose with a ‘Hallelujah Manu Ginobili Hedo Turkoglu,’ and it was on. Everybody started jumping up and down. I thought ‘Oh yeah? Take this...’ and I fired off a ‘Hallelujah Manu Ginobili Hedo Turkoglu Slava Medvedenko! MEDvedenko! Whoooaaa MedveDENKO!’ It felt like a tongues triple-double.”

Though Tate’s tongues were received by all, the interpretation was difficult to decipher. “I really couldn’t get a read on it,” said Duncan Thiel, 47. “So we called in Brother Metcalf.”

Burl Metcalf, 101, was a toddler during the Azusa Street revival in the early 20th century, and is Murfreesboro Assembly’s chief tongues expert. “Try as I could, all I could come up with was ‘3 ball from downtown!’, and ‘Who’s your Daddy now, sucka!’ I suppose it means the Trinity in the New Jerusalem is still our heavenly Father, or something.

Pentecostal Man’s Glossolalia Echos NBA Rosters


Joseph Botwinick

 

[DHK]

You post simply shows the fraudulent use of tongues, and that it is not the Biblical gift of the New Testament. Any made up gibberish today is accepted by the Charismatics today as speaking in tongues which is both hilarious (as your post points out), and at the same time very sad, because they are so way off base in doctrine being very greatly deceived.
DHK

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
DHK,

I would argue that nobody should be talking while the pastor is preaching, not just women. It is just a sign of respect and part of orderly worship. But now, it seems to me that we are off topic, so let me set the ship right and take us back to the original humor so that those of us with a sense of humor might have a good laugh today:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Pentecostal Man’s Glossolalia Echos NBA Rosters

MURFREESBORO, TN – When new believer Gentry Tate attended Murfreesboro Assembly of God’s Friday Night Signs and Wonders meeting, he wasn’t expecting to make use of his acute knowledge of professional basketball. However, when traveling preacher Morgan Sheppard gave the altar call for those who wanted to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Tate turned to the NBA for guidance. “He laid hands on me, and I didn’t want to let him down, so I spouted the weirdest gibberish I could come up with: ‘Kirelenko, Mutombo, Potapenko, you name it’. I guess it worked - everyone around me praised Jesus.”

The 21 year old native of Murfreesboro was led to Christ by best friend Cole Smith earlier this year. “Cole said I needed to get baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost, so he dunked me down at Buffalo Creek. I didn’t talk in tongues, so I guess it didn’t take. He suggested I see an anointed preacher like Reverend Sheppard. On the way over, Cole kinda prepped me for the infilling. He said I just needed to do some baby talk and the Holy Ghost would take over from there. Boy am I glad I was watching the Spurs-Jazz game before I went.”

“His prayer language is beautiful,” said long time Assembly attender June Dunton. “When he rattled off that string of ‘Stojakovic Ilgauskis Pau Gasol,’ I was just mesmerized. I never heard anything like it before.” For his part, Tate simply didn’t want to embarrass Reverend Sheppard. “Everybody he slapped on the forehead did a tongue, but I was at a loss for words. Until I remembered Tim Duncan’s slam dunk. Then I went for it with a, ‘Hallelujah Manu Ginobili.’ I heard everybody around me saying ‘yes Lord,’ so I figured I had the Holy Ghost. Then I let loose with a ‘Hallelujah Manu Ginobili Hedo Turkoglu,’ and it was on. Everybody started jumping up and down. I thought ‘Oh yeah? Take this...’ and I fired off a ‘Hallelujah Manu Ginobili Hedo Turkoglu Slava Medvedenko! MEDvedenko! Whoooaaa MedveDENKO!’ It felt like a tongues triple-double.”

Though Tate’s tongues were received by all, the interpretation was difficult to decipher. “I really couldn’t get a read on it,” said Duncan Thiel, 47. “So we called in Brother Metcalf.”

Burl Metcalf, 101, was a toddler during the Azusa Street revival in the early 20th century, and is Murfreesboro Assembly’s chief tongues expert. “Try as I could, all I could come up with was ‘3 ball from downtown!’, and ‘Who’s your Daddy now, sucka!’ I suppose it means the Trinity in the New Jerusalem is still our heavenly Father, or something.

Pentecostal Man’s Glossolalia Echos NBA Rosters


Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]I fail to see the humor I am not laughing!

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tragic_pizza:
"Known" to someone, I suppose. I cannot recall ever being in a situation where people of every possible languiage were in one place, so that a tongue could be translated rather than interpreted.

But whatever.

I'm convinced that we are all so enamoured of our personal theological interpretations that we will never be able to fulfill John 17. Ichabod.

If it was known to someone in that congregation then both the interpreter, and the person in the congregation that the tongues was to edify would obviously know what the language was. In other words someone would know the language. That was one of the purposes of tongues. Also according to 1Cor.14:21,22, it was a sign to the Jews. They would also know. But if you don't have any Jews present in your church, again tongue is unbiblical.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Interesting interpretation of Scripture there.

Interpretation of tongues, by the way, differs from the word I used, translation. The idea that the tongues practiced today are all unknownlanguages (and tossing aside Paul's exact phrasing in 1 Corinthians 13, "...men and angels...") is unproveable, unless one is able to provide the opportunity for the particular tongue to be heard by someone who unerstands every language on earth, including dead languages (just for fun).

As to not even allowing someone possessing an ovary to pray in your service, well, that's a subject for another thread.

And Joe, the joke is just as funny today as it was at the beginning. Which is to say as hilarious as a traumatic amputation.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by atestring:I fail to see the humor I am not laughing! [/QB]

It's OK, ate. DHK and Joe are laughing. At you.

They're laughing at me, too, though, if it helps.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I posted it for those of us with a sense of humor.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by atestring:
I fail to see the humor I am not laughing!

You don't have to see humor. You are not required to. I don't necessarily see humor. I see it as a pitiful situation that gives evidence that tongues are fraudulent. I see evidence that the entire Charismatic movement is greatly deceived, and going down a road that could lead many to damnation. I see evidence of a very dangerous doctrine no where advocated in the Bible.
DHK

 

[tragic_pizza]

See, ate? I told you.

 

[csmith]

Well Joseph,
Did you ever dream that your joke would fill all 20 pages? I have to admit--most of my jokes don't get that much attention.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Never in my wildest dreams did I think it would go beyond 2 pages.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Pete]

Joseph, it's an even wilder dream come true that the original joke has been quoted I don't know how many times through the thread by those who (supposedly) hate it It seems the joke really is anointed Perhaps something is sinking in somewhere?