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Pentecostal Order of Salvation

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1689Dave

1689Dave

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Yeshua1 said:
Are not the scriptures themselves fully sufficient? Are the Creeds inspired?
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The creeds explain what the scriptures say with proven reliability. I'll bet you cannot detail the doctrine of the trinity or deity of Christ without studying them.
 
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Yeshua1

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1689Dave said:
The creeds explain what the scriptures say with proven reliability. I'll bet you cannot detail the doctrine of the trinity or deity of Christ without studying them.
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You claim that the Holy Spirit cannot reveal to the saved those doctrines in the scriptures without aid of creeds?
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
rockytopva said:
There is a difference between spiritual and emotional.

Spiritual fruit - The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23

Emotional, on the other hand, is something totally different and tends to the flesh. There is a change of heart that is neither flesh nor mental reasoning. I believe the change of heart, or sanctification, is superior to mental doctrine, or any kind of noise one may make.
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Job had faith. Faith is a gift from God. Upon faith is doctrine. Upon doctrine is our emotions.

Many Christians have tossed out doctrine and consequently they have nothing but faith and emotion. Their understanding of the God in which they have faith is minimal and thus, when God ordains suffering and becomes silent, they have nothing and often give way to great disappointment, thinking either God abandoned them or they have committed such a grave sin that God is bringing his punishment upon them. They become inward focused and have no support left since they feel the Holy Spirit has left them.

Had they understood the doctrines of the Bible, they would have something solid to hold onto and know that God had not left them. They would realize that the prosperity gospel is from hell.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
So you don't believe the doctrine of the trinity? The Deity of Christ? Total Depravity? Amillennialism? Do I need to prove these to you?
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I have no clue how you jumped the shark. Please show how you made this mental hurdle.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
The creeds explain what the scriptures say with proven reliability. I'll bet you cannot detail the doctrine of the trinity or deity of Christ without studying them.
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Really? You mean to say I can't read about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the Bible? You mean I can't read how Jesus says "before Abraham was, I Am" and it is the same phrase that Jehovah uses with Moses when he says "tell them that I Am has sent you"?

You mean to say that I needed some other human mind to reveal these things and God's word isn't enough?

Honestly, you even sound like a Pharisee when you make that claim.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Really? You mean to say I can't read about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit in the Bible? You mean I can't read how Jesus says "before Abraham was, I Am" and it is the same phrase that Jehovah uses with Moses when he says "tell them that I Am has sent you"?

You mean to say that I needed some other human mind to reveal these things and God's word isn't enough?

Honestly, you even sound like a Pharisee when you make that claim.
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I mean you cannot grasp the precision in the doctrines as stated in the creeds. And possibly you do not agree with them while thinking you might.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
I mean you cannot grasp the precision in the doctrines as stated in the creeds. And possibly you do not agree with them while thinking you might.
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Why would the creeds of fallen men take precedence over the word of God? Please explain.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Normally, when a true believer rejects the creeds it's because they have not studied them.
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Normally, a true believer studies God's word and tests any creed of fallen men against what God declares.
My friend, it seems you worship the creeds of men above the word of God. Be careful.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Normally, a true believer studies God's word and tests any creed of fallen men against what God declares.
My friend, it seems you worship the creeds of men above the word of God. Be careful.
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You assume the early Church didn't know what they were doing. I'll bet they could teach you a lot you'll possibly never know.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
You assume the early Church didn't know what they were doing. I'll bet they could teach you a lot you'll possibly never know.
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I am referring to you.

I don't assume. I test the spirits of men. You assume that the creeds are authoritative over and above God's word, which is a terrible assumption. It is the same assumption that the Pharisees made.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
I am referring to you.

I don't assume. I test the spirits of men. You assume that the creeds are authoritative over and above God's word, which is a terrible assumption. It is the same assumption that the Pharisees made.
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You are telling lies about me on top of it all. Nobody places the creeds above the word.
 
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