You must be wrong. Faucci now says asymptomatic can spread Covid.
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People who don’t want the vaccine aren’t refusing it
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
RipponRedeaux
Well-Known Member
SOS, Jon is in distress. He needs backup ASAP!
see this is what you do. I had no comment on that portion of your post. I specifically pointed out the part that is a personal attack. You add in the personal digs then when called on about it you cull that portion out and act as if you it wasn’t said and only focus on the portion of your comment not being addressed. It’s call obfuscation.
now when you actually address the portion I quoted then there will be some integrity in your response.
I have seen studies that compare 3 months post infection to 3 months post vax. Post infected had higher T cell. Significantly higher killer T cell. Close to same number helper T.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Yes, I've heard that one ( and others like it ) before, and seen it written many times.
To me, the problem is that I see it being an example of "chance", and not true faith, and I don't think that it applies in this situation.
Instead, why don't we as believers use the stories of faith ( Hebrews 1 and many others ) that He has given to us in His word to take comfort in?
In the case of this present pandemic ( and there will be more before the Lord Jesus comes again, you can count on it ),
we as Christians do not absolutely need man's vaccines to keep us healthy, nor do we take our hope from entities like the CDC, the government or the medical professionals,
and we definitely do not take our hope from companies that make millions of dollars off selling doses of vaccines.
We have Him to take care of us.
We have a God-designed immune system that He has provided, plus faith in His promises and power to carry us through to the end of our earthly lives.
We have a Heavenly Father who saved us out of this world and to Himself...
and the least we could do in the light of all of that, is to trust Him and His power over and above the unproven ( and often untrustworthy ) methods of men who do not trust Him.
Science has always been a millions steps behind the Lord, Jon....
It's gimped by the fact that the best that it can do is to react and to learn, and it doesn't even do a very good job at that.
What's worse is,
It does not trust in anything but itself.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
@JonC ,
I'm not a professional scientist,
but I am someone who has spent the last 40-45 years, since I was a child, looking with wonder ( and growing sobriety ) at God's creation.
I'm someone who has understood it in the context of His words, and realized that there are indeed people who do not trust the Lord and are trying with all their might to overcome the inevitable....
Death.
No matter what mankind does, His will is going to be done ( Daniel 4:35 ).
Please take to heart the words of Job, Solomon, and the Psalmists.
They saw much of it and were inspired of Him to write about it it for our learning.
Our days as men on this earth are numbered and are in His hands, no matter how much we, as a race, might try to change the outcome of what He has determined upon all of us.
No amount of chasing illnesses with vaccines, bodily exercise or worrying about every little thing that affects us in the here and now, will ever stave off the end;
No matter how hard we as a race, try to extend our lives or "beat the odds", we will. not. win.
It's a lesson in futility, my friend.
Incidentally, faith in God and His words is what taught me that, not "fatalism".
Again, as believers in Jesus Christ we have our Hope, and it's not science and medicine.
Perhaps the story of the woman with the issue of blood in Matthew 20:20-22 applies much more, in our case:
" And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 for she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour."
I'm not a professional scientist,
but I am someone who has spent the last 40-45 years, since I was a child, looking with wonder ( and growing sobriety ) at God's creation.
I'm someone who has understood it in the context of His words, and realized that there are indeed people who do not trust the Lord and are trying with all their might to overcome the inevitable....
Death.
No matter what mankind does, His will is going to be done ( Daniel 4:35 ).
Please take to heart the words of Job, Solomon, and the Psalmists.
They saw much of it and were inspired of Him to write about it it for our learning.
Our days as men on this earth are numbered and are in His hands, no matter how much we, as a race, might try to change the outcome of what He has determined upon all of us.
No amount of chasing illnesses with vaccines, bodily exercise or worrying about every little thing that affects us in the here and now, will ever stave off the end;
No matter how hard we as a race, try to extend our lives or "beat the odds", we will. not. win.
It's a lesson in futility, my friend.
Incidentally, faith in God and His words is what taught me that, not "fatalism".
Again, as believers in Jesus Christ we have our Hope, and it's not science and medicine.
Perhaps the story of the woman with the issue of blood in Matthew 20:20-22 applies much more, in our case:
" And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 for she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour."
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
To the OP:
We as believers in Jesus Christ have been given all that we need that pertains to life and godliness in the Person of God's Son.
We really should be looking to the Lord and to Him alone for our every need.
After all,
He tells us to do that very thing in Matthew 5, Matthew 6 and Matthew 7 ( and in many other places, like Proverbs 3 ).
This will be my final reply in this thread.
Some people who don't want the vaccines are not refusing them just to refuse them...
they are choosing to trust the Lord with all that they have and with all that they are.
If that makes those of us who do so, "fools", then I'd rather be that kind of "fool" ( one who trusts the Lord ), than the one who does not...and finds out, in the end, that all of their trust in fallen men was misplaced.
At the same time, vaccines can be good things...
but again, our reliance upon them should never take the place of our reliance upon the Lord.
May God bless you all.
We as believers in Jesus Christ have been given all that we need that pertains to life and godliness in the Person of God's Son.
We really should be looking to the Lord and to Him alone for our every need.
After all,
He tells us to do that very thing in Matthew 5, Matthew 6 and Matthew 7 ( and in many other places, like Proverbs 3 ).
This will be my final reply in this thread.
Some people who don't want the vaccines are not refusing them just to refuse them...
they are choosing to trust the Lord with all that they have and with all that they are.
If that makes those of us who do so, "fools", then I'd rather be that kind of "fool" ( one who trusts the Lord ), than the one who does not...and finds out, in the end, that all of their trust in fallen men was misplaced.
At the same time, vaccines can be good things...
but again, our reliance upon them should never take the place of our reliance upon the Lord.
May God bless you all.
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I am not sure I believe in chance.
I agree that science can be taken as opposed to Christianity, but that is not the fault of science and there are many scientists and many doctors who are also Christian.
God is a God of means. I have seen God's miracles performed through a surgeons hands. I understand others cannot see God at work in this way.
I take blood pressure medicine- not because I lack faith in God but because I like bacon.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I think you missed his point entirely.
I could be wrong. It really does not matter to me who can spread covid as much as who is less likely to get covid (the vaccinated), who is less likely to have severe symptoms (the vaccinated), who is less likely to die (the vaccinated), and who will be able to keep their DOE job after November 30 (the vaccinated).
In other words, I do not care what other people do or the consequences of their decisions. That is up to them.
BTW, skipped Helen...at some state park near Mountain City where I had to walk 500 miles up hill both ways to see water falling down some rocks.
I know where you talking about. Been there, but forgot the name. Dick's Creek?
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I'm not sure. But I know my feet hurt.
I was at Tallulah Gorge State Park. (Had to look it up).
My wife said her watch showed we walked a mile. No way man. We walked and walked and walked. Up and down and back up again.
I have hiked it a few times. I went completely down to the water and back up to the top 8 weeks post ACL reconstruction. I paid for that for a few days.
This is not what the studies have shown. Granted, it was with the J&J vacvine.
What they discovered was that covid infection did produce significant antibodies (more than the J&J vaccine with substantial covid infection). But the concern was that covid itself was diminishing t-celks while the vacvine increased t-cells.
Their observation was after no significant antibodies were detected in those who have been vaccinated they remained resistant to covid based on t-celks. They were concerned with covid diminishing t-cells (that natural immunity would be non-existent once the antibodies warned, and the antibodies were dependent on the severity of infection).
In the end information is changing. Time will tell.
well....my feet do hurt. I'm not the hiker I once was. Kinda like that Toby Keith song, except I'm not sure I'm as good once as I ever was.
I went to school at WCU. Spent a bunch of time in Franklin, NC just north of Mountain City, GA. Incidentally I now live near Mountain City, TN. You oughta check out Panthertown Valley in Cashiers. Great waterfalls and views. I hiked a couple miles there at 11pm one night to do some talking with the Lord. If you're brave, you can do what us hillbillies do and swim in the 50 degree spring water
.Onto the main subject. As far as the vaccines go, there needs to be an independent study done by Pro-Covid-Vax proponents and Anti-Covid-Vax opponents teamed up that shows what the percentage is of healthy people taking the vaccine and experiencing side effects such as fluid buildup around the heart, or shortness of breath.
Then the results need to be compared with COVID survival rates for those under 50. The CDC telling us that there's a "slight" chance of side effects means doodly squat because for us young 'uns there's also a "slight" chance of death from COVID, so it's a wash at best.
I think the issue would be "independent". There have been quite a few independent studies, but since the CDC uses them and they show the vaccine is working those who do not like the results reject the study.I went to school at WCU. Spent a bunch of time in Franklin, NC just north of Mountain City, GA. Incidentally I now live near Mountain City, TN. You oughta check out Panthertown Valley in Cashiers. Great waterfalls and views. I hiked a couple miles there at 11pm one night to do some talking with the Lord. If you're brave, you can do what us hillbillies do and swim in the 50 degree spring water
Onto the main subject. As far as the vaccines go, there needs to be an independent study done by Pro-Covid-Vax proponents and Anti-Covid-Vax opponents teamed up that shows what the percentage is of healthy people taking the vaccine and experiencing side effects such as fluid buildup around the heart, or shortness of breath.
Then the results need to be compared with COVID survival rates for those under 50. The CDC telling us that there's a "slight" chance of side effects means doodly squat because for us young 'uns there's also a "slight" chance of death from COVID, so it's a wash at best.
When I say independent, I just mean not associated at all with the CDC, or with the corps who made the vaccines. No conflicts of interest. People who are critical thinkers and open minded and who deal in good faith from both sides. I think that's really the only way to convince those of us that are skeptics.
Those in the Evangelical community who support outright mandates are forcing millions upon millions of their brethren to choose between violating their conscience or not being able to feed their family. That is a sinful, evil and despicable choice, that if implemented will cause me to no longer trust any Brother or Sister in Christ who supported such evil. I can't even fathom someone being a Christian and supporting that.
My wife and I often discuss her getting the vaccine because she has a couple comorbidities that mean she is at a higher risk of death from COVID even though we're very young. Yet we hesitate to get her vaccinated because nobody that we trust has given, nor can give, an honest breakdown of vaccine data because the big tech monopolies use their bully pulpit to shut down honest discussion. It's downright evil and authoritarian.
Many of the studies were not associated with the CDC. The CDC used these studies (quite a few were from the field). That said, we have to be very careful not to use studies that are independent of peers.
The CDC studies have shown the vaccine effective. Independent studies in the field have also. And medical research studies have shown the vaccines effective.
The issue is all of this science is dismissed by people who do not like the findings. I am not sure the reason, except perhaps people just like conspiracies. It makes them feel powerful to be in a minority? Or perhaps it soothes their fears (here, think of all of the smokers decades who dug up "experts" that deny smoking is unhealthy).
That said, organizations like the CDC are the gold standard.