BobRyan
Well-Known Member
On the contrary - I actually read Daniel 7 and Romans 2 instead of clinging to man-made-tradition against the clear statements in the Bible
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Pink...the Atonement, 1 Jn2:2
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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On the contrary - I actually read Daniel 7 and Romans 2 instead of clinging to man-made-tradition against the clear statements in the Bible
Every siiner saved byt eh grace of God right now has the Eternal Life promised to them by Jesus in them, and they have right now full and permanent justification with the father by/on the basis of the Cross. the ONLY "judgement" any believer faces is unto eternal rewards, NOTHING to do with keeping or losing salvation, despite what EW taught!
As do i, but I prefer the scriptures and Holy Spirit interpretation of them as compared to the views EW held!
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Christ paid the debt owed for all sin (as the Atoning Sacrifice for it) for all mankind in all of time - 1 John 2:2.
But that was "Atoning Sacrifice" of Leviticus 16 "Day of Atonement" teaching of the Bible. The "Lord's goat slain" - the "sin offering killed".
However in Lev 16 it takes both the work of Christ as Sin offering AND the work of Christ as "High Priest" which Hebrews 8:1 says is "the main point" - to complete the full Bible definition of "Atonement".
Something Calvinism falls short in comprehending in its own redefinition of the term "Atonement"
The High Priestly work of Christ in Lev 16 and in Hebrews 9 (8 and 9) - includes the interaction between Christ and the sinner - applying the benefits of the atoning sacrifice to the repentant sinner.
Thus.. unlimited atoning sacrifice.
But limited application in the role of Christ as High Priest.
So not universalism.
Game over.
Quoting "yourself" as heavily as you do... you probably missed the "forgiveness revoked" teaching of Christ in Matthew 18
Quoting yourself as heavily as you do you probably did not read Romans 2, or Daniel 7 or 2 Cor5:10 where ALL are to stand before the judgment seat of Christ... and Romans 6:23 says the "reward" for sin is death.
But that was "Atoning Sacrifice" of Leviticus 16 "Day of Atonement" teaching of the Bible. The "Lord's goat slain" - the "sin offering killed".
However in Lev 16 it takes both the work of Christ as Sin offering AND the work of Christ as "High Priest" which Hebrews 8:1 says is "the main point" - to complete the full Bible definition of "Atonement".
Something Calvinism falls short in comprehending in its own redefinition of the term "Atonement"
The High Priestly work of Christ in Lev 16 and in Hebrews 9 (8 and 9) - includes the interaction between Christ and the sinner - applying the benefits of the atoning sacrifice to the repentant sinner.
Thus.. unlimited atoning sacrifice.
But limited application in the role of Christ as High Priest.
So not universalism.
Game over.
Quoting "yourself" as heavily as you do... you probably missed the "forgiveness revoked" teaching of Christ in Matthew 18
Quoting yourself as heavily as you do you probably did not read Romans 2, or Daniel 7 or 2 Cor5:10 where ALL are to stand before the judgment seat of Christ... and Romans 6:23 says the "reward" for sin is death.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
It's called "arbitrary selection"
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Unlimited Atoning Sacrifice. "For our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2
When we see posts here rich with Bible texts that refute Calvinism and the best Calvinist response is to laugh at those scriptures -- the weak point in their argument has been fully unmasked.
Your very question proves you have no idea what Unconditional Election is all about.
You are asking what CONDITION we meet for UNCONDITIONAL election?
That would be funny if it were not so sad.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Very good question.
Will be interested to see if you get more than "harrrumph!" as the response...
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Your very question proves you have no idea what Unconditional Election is all about.
You are asking what CONDITION we meet for UNCONDITIONAL election?
That would be funny if it were not so sad.
Indeed he should have said "Arbitrary selection"
7. If ALL the sins of ALL men were laid upon Christ, what did the apostle mean when he said, "Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment"? (1 Tim. 5:24)One thing he meant was that no atonement had been made for them. Mark, again, he is speaking, not of sin, but "sins," and these, he declared, are "going before to judgment." Nothing could be plainer, These "sins" had not been "judged" at the Cross, therefore, they must be judged in the Day of Judgment.
Atonement had been made but was not appropriated by faith.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
All sins -- "not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2 find their full payment in the atoning sacrifice of Christ - full and complete for all sins for all mankind.
The wicked that go to hell will see that Christ paid for their sins -- they need not have chosen hell.
As has been stated about a dozen times - the "ATonement doctrine" that God defines in the Bible can be see in how He structured the "Day of Atonement" in Lev 16 - where it is BOTH the work of Christ as the "Lord's Goat" the "sin offering" .... AND ALSO .. the work of Christ as High Priest to apply those benefits to the sinner -- that is needed for the full Bible definition of "Atonement" to be met.
A not-so-subtle detail that Calvinists miss.
So while the "Atoning Sacrifice" is unlimited - the "Atonement" can not be applied to the wicked who never engage with the Spirit of Christ in accepting that atonement "applied" to their case.
As Hebrews 8:1 says "The main point is this" - Christ is High Priest in heaven
Hello Hank,
My understanding of this verse is....there is no other Saviour available anywhere. Any man who gets saved will be saved by Jesus.
For unsaved persons they reject Him as the only Saviour available.
An Atonement that is not appropiated is no atonement. That person lacks an atonement.
"BobRyan,
2 and he -- he is a propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world,
10. If ALL the sins of ALL men were laid upon Christ, there wherein lies the need for and wherein would be the propriety of the dead being "judged according to their works"? (Rev. 20:12) If the only issue between God and the world is their attitude toward Christ; if the only ground of condemnation for men be the rejection of the divinely appointed Savior, then it would be meaningless, or worse, to arraign them for their works. The fact that Holy Writ does declare that the wicked shall yet be judged "according to their works" is incontestable evidence that they will have more to answer for, and will suffer for something more than their rejection of Christ.
2 and he -- he is a propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world,
10. If ALL the sins of ALL men were laid upon Christ, there wherein lies the need for and wherein would be the propriety of the dead being "judged according to their works"? (Rev. 20:12) If the only issue between God and the world is their attitude toward Christ; if the only ground of condemnation for men be the rejection of the divinely appointed Savior, then it would be meaningless, or worse, to arraign them for their works. The fact that Holy Writ does declare that the wicked shall yet be judged "according to their works" is incontestable evidence that they will have more to answer for, and will suffer for something more than their rejection of Christ.
How do we appropriate something that was offered by Christ to God? Do we go into heaven and steal it off the Mercy Seat?
You really, really, really, need to change your screen name.
No, we ignore it.
So, you don't have an answer?
IMO, this flawed human reasoning which although appears to make sense in reality does not.
God makes the rules. His blood is a propitiation for the sins of the world.
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;