PLANES CRASH INTO WTC in NYC

[Pastor Larry]

Covenant Theologian,

Gen 12:1-3 -- I will you a great nation and those who bless you I will bless and those who curse you I will curse.

This promise is repeated all through the OT regarding the treatment of God's chosen people. The US is doing the right thing by supporting Israel. The Palestinians are in the wrong on this issue. It is the Palestinians who are invading the territory of Israel. The US has simply given the Isrealis some of the help they need to defend themselves against aggressors. That is not to say that the Israelis are totally innocent; they are not. But they have a right to defend themselves against the aggression of a 4000 year old enemy who is led by blind religious fervor without truth.

To say that American needs to practice restraint is to entertain the ridiculous. The government of any country should defend itself against invaders. The US through history has been a defender of freedom everywhere and this should be no different. We were attacked our own soil and should respond quickly and forcefully against those who perpetrated the attack. No one is talking of killing innocent Muslims (as if there is such a thing). But to repay and exact the toll that unprovoked cold blooded murder has brought is the responsibility of God ordained government.

This attack is the result of false religion and the only thing that will solve it fully is the return of Christ to restore his nation and set up his kingdom. We looked at the passage in Joel 2 and Zech 12-14 briefly tonight about the wonderful promise of the coming King who will rule over all the world in righteousness and peace. His people who crucified him will look on him whom they pierced and will mourn in repentance and will return will all their hearts. The New covenant will be fulfilled and Israel will be restored to their place just as Deut 30:1-14 promised (another passage we looked at tonight).

 

[Eric B]

Pretty interesting. One person, I know, and saw all the gross racism, hypocrisy, on both sides, and simply stepped back, from all the games people play, and came to see a lot of things everyone else, following the crowd, have missed. He points out all the areas where history is glossed over to make us look good, but in reality, we did all kinds of evil.
What he says about why the Arabs hate us is because we went over there way back in the 40's, raped the land and people to get the oil, then put the Israelites in to keep an eye on the Arabs. Of course, we claimed to be fulfilling biblical prophecy by doing this, but it struck me when I first got saved and, and looked up prophecies about Israel, that God did say His people would come back to the land. But He said HE would do it, not man and his sword (Hosea 1:7). Yet Christians always uncritically sided with Israel, even though the way they were bombing people out of Palestine didn't seem right, even if it was originally their land, and God promised it back to them, ultimately. Even Philip Yancey, in his Back Page editorial in the current Christianity Today says "In Middle East Conflicts, they always side with Israel, ignoring injustices against the Palestinians--hasn't God promised to bless His chosen people in the latter days?"
Gen.12:3 was always appealed to, as if we could siphon "blessings" off from God just by giving Israel political favors, such as land. Yet, a few decades earlier, any Jews in the South (under the "fundamental Christianity" of the same people) would have had to drink at the black fountains, and ride the back of the bus just like all the other "mongrels". And some of them continued to call them "stiff-necked", which had been used all of Church history to justify persecuting them.
Still, some use them as a political football, to pronounce "curses" on those groups they look down on anyway, for not supporting Israel. The Chick tract "Love the Jews" (formerly "Jeopardy") suggests that all the famine in Africa is the result of the leaders of those nations "breaking off diplomatic ties with Israel", and therefore coming under the divine "curse"! This is amazing, as it doesn't even deal with the question of whether a nation is required by God to have "diplomatic ties" with Israel as a form of "blessing" them rather than cursing them, and thus avoiding the "curse". Israel is a nation with its share of wrongs, and it has to live in this world with everyone else just like any other nation. I don't see Christians who emphasize blessing the Jews doing anything for them other than telling the US and Europe to support their political battles (which God said He would resolve upon His return).
The whole message of this tract is that America has "turned her back" on Israel, by siding with its enemies, for the sake of oil, and is now going to "lose its blessings" (I wonder if Mr. Chick is looking at this tragedy as further "fulfillment"). But what's funny, is that we are still being attacked for our siding with Israel. The reason, the person I know told me, we do not support Israel all the way anymore, is because once we got them back into the land, they wanted more, and we weren't willing to trample on others' rights but so much.
So here we are today, straddling the fence, sort of, not in full support of Israel all the time, but nevertheless still hated and attacked by her enemies for her sake.
I know people want documentation for claims like this, and I asked him just today where to find it. Honest treatments of history are always hard to find, lacking public exposure, because they are not popular, because of the fact that they counter everyone's viewpoint, which is made out to make them the good guys. (It is then called "revisionist" history). So I don't know where to begin to look. But knowing human nature, it seems to fit right into place. I just cannot believe anyone is so 100% innocent and good, as people make themselves out to be in these wars. It's totally contrary to the Gospel, which has concluded ALL under sin. The Arabs are doing the same exact thing— "we're the chosen, and God gave it to us, and we have to fight for it by any means". Even though their Koran also says, like the Bible, that God will ultimately quash evil and wrong. It's a shame people are fighting over a little piece of land (on a world that will pass away as the scriptures from all 3 religions teach), when God is the one who should be getting all that desire, and His Word ignored, but instead, He is only used as people's claim to rights.

 

[Barnabas H.]

Folks we do appreciate your comments but be sure you keep it short, to the point, and edifying. If you have 5 pages to communicate, have it posted on the Web and place only the link (URL) to it. Thank you so much!

 

[Defensor Fidei]

Larry --

To WHOM is that promise in Genesis made?/

Abraham and his SEED.

WHO are the seed of Abraham in the New Covenant

Believers in Christ Jesus.

Ga 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children or seedof Abraham.

Who ELSE is called "the seed of Abraham"

Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Therefore, Christians, who are in the Body of Christ, are the seed of Abraham according to this promise.

What is over in the Middle East are a bunch of rag-tag motley JEWS. NOT ISRAELITES!!!

Israel is the name of the people of God, first given to the nation of Israel, now given to the Church (Gal. 6:16).

It is just this kind of sloppy isogesis which has led to this situation in the Middle East. Yet you guys will keep insisting we keep sending 8 billion dollars a year to these people who are semetic bigots and racists.

Zionism is ugly, no matter WHO espouses it.

Covenant Theologian

 

[bb_baptist]

The White House and Air Force One were targets of Tuesday's terrorist attacks, the White House confirmed today.

 

[bb_baptist]

Bin Laden under house arrest: report
From AFP

AFGHANISTAN'S ruling Taliban militia had placed alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden under house arrest in the wake of the suicide attacks on the United States, an Arabic online newspaper reported.

Quoting "fundamentalist Arab sources", Ilaf said the "Taliban have arrested Osama bin Laden before placing him under surveillance with several of his assistants," including the head of the Egyptian branch of Al-Jihad Ayman Al-Zawahri and bin Laden's military commander, Muhammad Atef Al-Makni.

"A number of Afghan fighters are under house arrest along with bin Laden," said the report late Wednesday.

But a diplomat at the Taliban's embassy in Abu Dhabi said he could not confirm the report.

"All we know is that he (bin Laden) is somewhere in Afghanistan, but we are not aware if he is under house arrest," the diplomat said.

Bin Laden and commander Atef have been indicted for the 1998 bombings of the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

Bin Laden has emerged as the prime suspect in yesterday's kamikaze hijacked passenger jet strikes on New York and Washington.

 

[Cyndib]

OUR NATION NEEDS TO REPENT

I just came back from a memorial service at my church for the victims and many who I know of and many who live so close to me.

The thing that stuck with me more than anything is there was a statement made that made alot of sense to me. We are a country that kills babies how can we really expect God to bless us as a nation?

We ask God bless us but many in this nation are doing so much to do that which would not please Him. Our nation needs a revival and more important is we as a nation need the Lord.

It is sad to think of all of these who died and how many of them did not have the Lord as their Savior.

Just some thoughts.

Cyndi

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katie:
Your post is less then christ centered, ot biblical. [/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny thing, you call my post less than Christ centered and not biblical, but originally I asked for you to back up your position scripturally and the best you could do is your own opinion. Since you skipped your turn I will take mine:

Romans 13:
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Rev. 19:
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

John 2:
14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Eclesiastes 3:
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 

[Barnabas H.]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Webmaster: Bin Laden under house arrest: report
From AFP. AFGHANISTAN'S ruling Taliban militia had placed alleged terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden under house arrest in the wake of the suicide attacks on the United States, an Arabic online newspaper reported.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We hope it is true, and if he is behind the terrorist act of the WTC and the Pentagon, then he ought to be brought to justice.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

House arrest...anybody got the coordinates of the house?

 

[Nicole]

Originally posted by CovenantTheologian:
[QB]I am NOT going to be popular for saying this.

So be it.
Hey, oh well, popular, smopular...we're all entitled to our opionions. Keeping that in mind please don't feel like I am attacking you in my comments...I'm just responding to that article you posted. I stress the disclaimer that I am aware this is just my personal opionion. I just can't believe that anyone could even possibley begin to say or think that the attack that was waged against the U.S. on Tuesday was done out of some form of righteous anger. No way. I mean if it is true which it most likely is, that this came from Osama bin Laden, well then, I think it happened because this evil, sick, dark man has too many people following him! He wasn't righting any wrongs done to his people, look at him, the coward wouldn't even admit to these heinous crimes. If he was doing this out of righteous anger at our steadily declining moral values, seems like the only way his point would be effective would be to TELL PEOPLE why he was doing it. I pray for guidance for our government. Even though I would rather the violence end...we need to make a statement here. This cannot be tolerated any longer. As far as I'm concerned, if people think we are so wrong to wage war with them because of this...then hand him over to us. Let us hold him accountable instead of hiding him away. This man needs to be brought down. He is nothing but an evil man delighting in inflicting pain and suffering on others. His own government exhiled him.

I may not have always agreed with all of the decisions that have been made by leadership in our country but I think the Lord makes it very clear about how we should respond to those in leadership. I will back our country 100%, no matter what they decide. I'm confidant that God will give the the wisdom they need.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: Nicole ]

 

[ROBERTGUWAPO]

I support the use of surgical tactical nukes against the perpetrators (and their protectors). If you don't send them back to the stone age, like roaches they will recover, prepare, and haunt you again.
Yes, tactical nukes!!!

 

[SaggyWoman]

Of all the photos and footage I have seen, I think the scenes of the people falling are overwhelming to me... . .

 

[livin'intheword]

(Short and to the point) I'm alone, I'm scared...and I'm not really sure where my husband is. I haven't heard from him today. I think coms with the ship are shut down.

 

[KeeperOfMyHome]

LivinInTheWord, I'm praying for you all day today. I'm a wife who has the luxury of having a husband who does not have to travel or be away from home. My heart truly aches for you, and I share your burden with you today.

 

[MARANATHA2000]

If bush can't bring it on himself to push the button. He needs to step aside and give the BALL to someone who is not afraid to run it in THE END zone.PEACE, but not yet.


" THE LORD COMETH "

 

[KeeperOfMyHome]

This is not a time for condemnation of what we think the President should or should not do. We need to pray for God to grant Him wisdom, and that he would seek God during this terrible time. It is always easier to say what we would do or not do when we're not the ones facing these tough decisions.

 

[donnA]

==the best you could do is your own opinion.==


My own opinion, no.Jesus said for us to forgive, we as christians are commanded to forgive.
Just how do you think not forgiving anyone is going to be anymore harmful to them?

 

[donnA]

Pennsylvania Jim
you quote a lot of scripture, anyone can do that. But you don't say just how you (opinion) think they apply, because I am having trouble seeing it. At best it has to be taken out of context, to even try to apply it to this situation. Surely you can come up with a better argument.

 

[Pastor Larry]

CT, I am not going to get into this here since it is off topic. You are right that the promise was made to Abraham and his seed. YOu are further right that believers are the spiritual seed of Abraham.

You are dead wrong that the promise is no longer good as it was given. You are denying the truthfulness and faithfulness of God. It doesn't bother me that you disagree with me. It bothers me that you handle Scripture so sloppily. You love Gal 3 but forget that according to Gal 3:17 the promise cannot be annulled even by disobedience to the Law which is the reason your system claims it was given up. Therefore, it is still in effect. You MUST deal with that verse because it contradicts your whole system. Thankfully, you are not in control and God will fulfill his promises without your approval. However, if you are a believer (and I presume that you are) you will participate in them anyway.

If you want to continue this discussion start another thread or revive one of the old ones. In those older thread, I posted many verses that others who share your opinion simply refused to answer and so the threads died. I am still waiting for someone who wants to defend your position.

The Jews are a bunch of ungodly people right now but the OT is still true and their King is coming. The leaders of our country need wisdom and courage at this time to go after those who are responsible.