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Please answer this...

C

convicted1

Guest
--Why are people unsaved?
They love darkness better than light.

--Why do they love darkness better than light?
Because they choose to.

--Why do they choose to love darkness better than light?
______________________________?


What say ye?


I believe I know the answer, but I am not setting you up to tear you down, if you disagree with me. :saint:
 
steaver

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
convicted1 said:
Zactly.


Now, to you and others on here, why were their deeds evil?


I am asking these questions as a way to delve deeper into the depravity of man....
Click to expand...

I believe it goes right back to because "men loved darkness".

But let's not forget the rest of the passage. Yes, men loved darkness and hated the light, but it also says those who doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The passage distinguishes between those who have chosen to hate and those who have chosen to love. It doesn't say they all chosen to hate as Calvinist would like it to read.

Good stuff!:jesus:
 
C

convicted1

Guest
steaver said:
I believe it goes right back to because "men loved darkness".

But let's not forget the rest of the passage. Yes, men loved darkness and hated the light, but it also says those who doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The passage distinguishes between those who have chosen to hate and those who have chosen to love. It doesn't say they all chosen to hate as Calvinist would like it to read.

Good stuff!:jesus:
Click to expand...

Thanks for you reply, Brother Steaver.


Now...why do men love darkness better than light?

Why do men love light better than darkness?

Why do they choose that which they love?
 
Scarlett O.

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
People love the darkness better than the light because:


  • To love the light means that one has to hate his or her own personal sin and people do not want to acknowledge that they are sinners.

  • People do not want to admit that they are sinners because then that would mean that they would have to submit themselves to the "L"ight where salvation abides.

  • People do not want to submit to the Light of the world (Jesus) because that would mean that He would have authority over them in all things and they would actually have to live in obedience to Jesus Christ.

  • People do not want to submit to authority. Humanity is rebellious by nature.

People, by virtue of their rebellion against God, prefer the darkness because they mistakenly believe that they are their own "god" there. But as Bob Dylan so wisely sang ... "You're gonna have to serve somebody ... it may be the devil or it may be the Lord .... but you're gonna have to serve somebody."

The darkness is not a place of being one's own master. It's a place of being mastered by sin and evil - enslavement to the devil.

Once people get that through their thick skulls, the idea of submitting to Lordship of Jesus Christ and His salvation is a GOOD thing and the Light becomes what one runs to. The yoke of Christ becomes desirable.
 
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C

convicted1

Guest
Scarlett O. said:
People love the darkness better than the light because:


  • To love the light means that one has to hate his or her own personal sin and people do not want to acknowledge that they are sinners.

  • People do not want to admit that they are sinners because then that would mean that they would have to submit themselves to the "L"ight where salvation abides.

  • People do not want to submit to the Light of the world (Jesus) because that would mean that He would have authority over them in all things and they would actually have to live in obedience to Jesus Christ.

  • People do not want to submit to authority. Humanity is rebellious by nature.

People, by virtue of their rebellion against God, prefer the darkness because they mistakenly believe that they are their own "god" there. But as Bob Dylan so wisely sang ... "You're gonna have to serve somebody ... it may be the devil or it may be the Lord .... but you're gonna have to serve somebody."

The darkness is not a place of being one's own master. It's a place of being mastered by sin and evil - enslavement to the devil.

Once people get that through their thick skulls, the idea of submitting to Lordship of Jesus Christ and His salvation is a GOOD thing and the Light becomes what one runs to. The yoke of Christ becomes desirable.
Click to expand...

But what causes one someone to love one or t'other? It goes much deeper...
 
Scarlett O.

Scarlett O.

Moderator
Moderator
convicted1 said:
But what causes one someone to love one or t'other? It goes much deeper...
Click to expand...

It's innate in the makeup of a human being to worship something. You can substitute the words serve or love or adore or live in obedience to. Every person in the Bible - whether righteous or unrighteous - had a connection to a god of some kind, even if it was just self-centeredness.

Look in Romans at that powerful end of chapter 1.

It said that the people turned away from God and would not recognize His glory. Then it says that they SUBSTITUTED the creature, the creation, something else in the true God's place.

It wasn't that they stopped their adoration something and became non-worshipers.

They refuse to worship and adore the One and True God and worshiped anything but Him.

Light. Darkness.

They are our only two choices of what to adore.

And we are going to adore something or someone. It's built into us.
 
salzer mtn

salzer mtn

Well-Known Member
Also to add to the discussion, In St. John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; but the darkness comprehended it not. The natural man is in darkness as to understanding the spiritual things of God 1 Cor 2:14, Eph 4:18. he just don't understand them or comprehend them.
 
steaver

steaver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
salzer mtn said:
Also to add to the discussion, In St. John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; but the darkness comprehended it not. The natural man is in darkness as to understanding the spiritual things of God 1 Cor 2:14, Eph 4:18. he just don't understand them or comprehend them.
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Yes, and that is why they must be born-again, from above. Not by the will of man, but by the will of God. Those who believe, God gave the power to become the sons of God. Ask and it shall be given. One does not ask except one believes God will do as He said He would.
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
convicted1 said:
--Why are people unsaved?
They love darkness better than light.

--Why do they love darkness better than light?
Because they choose to.

--Why do they choose to love darkness better than light?
______________________________?


What say ye?


I believe I know the answer, but I am not setting you up to tear you down, if you disagree with me. :saint:
Click to expand...

There deeds were evil but, it's more than just that, They can't bare the thought of conviction for there deeds. They simply have no words to defend them selves with. There fore with out defense they are afraid always running like a fugitive from justice. How ever once caught they have to face the light or the witness that exposes there sin. This is where a lot of people end up. eventually they may be caught where they have to face the light and conviction. If they look at there sin and accept there conviction they might be saved if they turn to Christ, because they need the light to look at there sin
MB
 
C

convicted1

Guest
MB said:
There deeds were evil but, it's more than just that, They can't bare the thought of conviction for there deeds. They simply have no words to defend them selves with. There fore with out defense they are afraid always running like a fugitive from justice. How ever once caught they have to face the light or the witness that exposes there sin. This is where a lot of people end up. eventually they may be caught where they have to face the light and conviction. If they look at there sin and accept there conviction they might be saved if they turn to Christ, because they need the light to look at there sin
MB
Click to expand...

Very good. :thumbs:


Now, other than "they choose darkness over light", why do most reject the light?
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
convicted1 said:
Very good. :thumbs:


Now, other than "they choose darkness over light", why do most reject the light?
Click to expand...
Accept and reject are not terms that are compatible with determinism, neither is "choose". The very phrases used in the verse in the OP prove determinism to be incorrect.

Why are men's deeds evil? Because they choose to violate God's law and give in to the desire of the flesh.
 
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C

convicted1

Guest
webdog said:
Accept and reject are not terms that are compatible with determinism, neither is "choose". The very phrases used in the verse in the OP prove determinism to be incorrect.

Why are men's deeds evil? Because they choose to violate God's law and give in to the desire of the flesh.
Click to expand...

But why do they choose to do that?
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
convicted1 said:
But why do they choose to do that?
Click to expand...
Desire and pride, same as with Eve.

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.


Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
 
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