In post # 72 of yours you were addressing me. Don't make charges and then try to weasel-out of them.
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Please Biblically Show Why The 5 Points Of Arminianism Are Correct?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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In post # 72 of yours you were addressing me. Don't make charges and then try to weasel-out of them.
psalms109:31
Active Member
It was addressed, but I was saying it to you, but I was really looking for a response like that is not me or that it is a shame for those who do that. You can take it the way you want to, but you don't know my heart on why i said it.
I don't know your heart on it without a response.
You are one perplexing person. You make little to no sense.
In post #71 I was talking about the inability of man to come to Jesus. You,on the other hand,think people have the power to come to the Lord on their own initiative.
Then,in your non-response (post 72) in which you didn't address anything I said, you say out of the blue that it amazes you how men lower the power of the Word of God that brought life out of nothing.
And of course that remark of yours had absolutely no relevance to anything I had said. It was just a made-up opportunity to throw charges at me for no reason whatsoever.
Deal specifically with what I said in my post numbered 71, or don't speak to me in posts at all.
psalms109:31
Active Member
WE make a good opportunity of talking scripture, and you want to turn into a attack on you and me. I can't even explain things to you rationally. I think I have already addressed it, but you turned around to be an attack
No man has an ability to come to God without God.
They first have to hear the message. Then they can't be wise in their own eyes or depend on their own understanding if they do God will simply hide the truth from them.
The only one who can come is those who listen and learn from the Father. Those who trust God over their own understanding. We are depending and trusting on God and His word, no matter that you believe you are chosen or that only those who believe in Jesus Shall be saved those who listen and learn.
Proverbs 3:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.
Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.
Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Romans 4:
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
This is what the word teaches about the power of the word of God is to the dead and we being filled by the same Holy Spirit that resided in Jesus Christ are the messengers of those words of life for the dead.
1 John 1
The Incarnation of the Word of Life
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[Some manuscripts your] joy complete.
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
John 5:25
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.
1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
2 Corinthians 5:
16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[Or Christ, that person is a new creation.] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[Or be a sin offering] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Yes, they believe this nonsense. And in other threads the non-cals will deny this altogether saying "no one on the BB believes this" followed by a flury of uninformed :thumbsup: responses by a group that rarely quotes any Scripture.
A little digging around provides evidence they do believe this erroneous unbiblical teaching.
psalms109:31
Active Member
I have been talking about this since 1993. I am not the same as i was 1993. I use to be like them turn into a attack on them and their belief system, thinking they were Universalism ultimately if God is going to save a chosen people and if God wants all men to be saved then all will be saved, the devil, being lead to the pit of destruction. That they are lost in the wilderness, until they start believing God generation after generation are going to die, until they start doing what God has called them to do. I know what it is like to be on the other side of the table.
I don't think like that about them anymore, people like Spurgeon tells me they are not all bad, I have changed my attitude about them. I am a Spurgeon Calvinist now
It is sad that it comes down as an attack on me and my education and my inability to place words together proper I will not make that my excuse as Moses did not to spread the hope that can only be found in Jesus. So I tell my story through scripture without changing one word to my own understanding. My words are meaningless to me I like the scripture I am about to give and the scripture I already gave I do try to place scripture in an order to tell my belief. Ultimately I trust in the scripture above myself, every word that comes from the mouth of God, not little pieces of bread that never satisfies and can be twisted to people's liking.
Ezekiel 33:
8 When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 9 But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.
James 5:
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
I don't think like that about them anymore, people like Spurgeon tells me they are not all bad, I have changed my attitude about them. I am a Spurgeon Calvinist now
It is sad that it comes down as an attack on me and my education and my inability to place words together proper I will not make that my excuse as Moses did not to spread the hope that can only be found in Jesus. So I tell my story through scripture without changing one word to my own understanding. My words are meaningless to me I like the scripture I am about to give and the scripture I already gave I do try to place scripture in an order to tell my belief. Ultimately I trust in the scripture above myself, every word that comes from the mouth of God, not little pieces of bread that never satisfies and can be twisted to people's liking.
Ezekiel 33:
8 When I say to the wicked, ‘You wicked person, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade them from their ways, that wicked person will die for their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 9 But if you do warn the wicked person to turn from their ways and they do not do so, they will die for their sin, though you yourself will be saved.
James 5:
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
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quantumfaith
Active Member
The interpretation is......
And now all you non-cals can just go home because the great one has spoken.:sleep:
That's correct. Just because someone attends church doesn't mean they are saved/regenerate. Many will go one time to just please someone else. Many will go to make themselves look good.
To be fair on this, there are some here on the BB who seem to refuse to ackwoeledge that they do indeed teach that a sinner can and of themselves come to Christ, or reject Him, based upon "free will", and faith naturally within us!
Think it goes back to not realising just HOW the fall of Adam affected us, that God is in individual election basis, and that we cannot come to God in a saving fashion unless/untill He allows it!NOT that we are the ones to allow/permit Him to be able to save us!
JF, the scriptures do not say we allow God to save us, they say we must SUBMIT to God and OBEY the gospel.
A person who comes to Jesus has chosen to submit to him and obey him, but Calvinists misrepresent this.
Just goes to show how some twist and distort words.
A natural man does NOT the things of the Bible/God, as they are spiritually discerned, natural man flesh in a state of emnety/war against God, cannot submit to God nor desire to
ONLY those led/enabled by the HS can and will call Jesus Lord...
We really cannot make a "free will" decision for Him unless the Lord enables us to be able to!
Please explain further. Are you saying that once the Lord enables us to do so, we can then exercise "free will" and decide not to choose Him?
psalms109:31
Active Member
I am so glad the word of God is more powerful than my inability.
I was headed not for life, but death, Jesus saved me from it. In Him i have been chosen from the beginning. It is because of Jesus i am save. The cost of my sin is death, not faith, not trust, not belief, not anything I can do that pay's it, but death. My faith given to me by God through His word teaches me He paid it and I owe my new life to Him. Without this faith I would still be headed for death, I praise God for the words of life.
I was never headed for life apart from Jesus I was never being regenerated without His word and I would not grow any more without His word changing me.
I praise God for His Son the only one with the words of eternal life. I pray that I carry those words not my own understanding of them.
I was headed not for life, but death, Jesus saved me from it. In Him i have been chosen from the beginning. It is because of Jesus i am save. The cost of my sin is death, not faith, not trust, not belief, not anything I can do that pay's it, but death. My faith given to me by God through His word teaches me He paid it and I owe my new life to Him. Without this faith I would still be headed for death, I praise God for the words of life.
I was never headed for life apart from Jesus I was never being regenerated without His word and I would not grow any more without His word changing me.
I praise God for His Son the only one with the words of eternal life. I pray that I carry those words not my own understanding of them.
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The irony is once you make this choice you spend the rest of your life struggling with choices between Christ and self which shouldn't be the case in the IG model.
I'll have to admit that this has been one of the greatest hindrances to my full acceptance of the reformed model. It just doesn't add up quite so neatly as some so strongly insist that it should.
I'll have to admit that this has been one of the greatest hindrances to my full acceptance of the reformed model. It just doesn't add up quite so neatly as some so strongly insist that it should.
Same here, that and along with the fact I can love my child (if not one of the "elect") more than God does made me reject it fully. If I can show one of God's greatest attributes more than He can it stomps on His sovereignty.
This analogy has problems that can go either way.
-A non-cal will ask the cal: "Why does God not love this person enough to give them the free will to choose Him? It seams he does not love them at all?
-A Cal would ask a non-cal: "Why doesn't God love this person enough to overcome their free-will choice to reject him, and change their heart so they will trust in him? It seems he does not love them at all?
It's not so much of an analogy as a fact. In the calvinist's system, there is a chance one, two or all of my children are not God's "elect". Based on their Jacob I loved, Esau I hated usage I can very well love my children more than God who IS love does. My system does not have this issue as I believe a human cannot love another human more than God does as John 3:16 points out. I take 2 Peter 3:9 literally.
Actually, if Unconditional Election is true, then all of your children should be unelect. If God chose to elect your children because you are elect, that would be conditional, choosing them out of his favor toward you. So, to avoid showing any favor toward you, God would pass by your children.
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