Please define 'easy believism", as isn't it faith alone in Christ that does save?

[preacher4truth]

1. You don't know what I believe. That is apparent.
2. You slandered me, saying I believe what I don't believe.
3. I do believe in sola fide.
4. LS advocates present "another" gospel, which Gal.1:8 calls accursed.
They have denied the very basics of the simple gospel as presented in 1Cor.15:1-4. I think you would even agree to that. Can you stick to the gospel as presented by Paul in 1Cor.15:1-4 and be saved? or is more required? Please explain.

First off, no one has slandered you, including me. Drop your sword, no need to fall on it.

No more is required than the Gospel itself.

However.

Those that have truly been born again show evidence thereof. That's the Word of God. Note how in the epistles Paul speaks of the changed lives of those to whom he preached.

 

[JesusFan]

First off, no one has slandered you, including me. Drop your sword, no need to fall on it.

No more is required than the Gospel itself.

However.

Those that have truly been born again show evidence thereof. That's the Word of God. Note how in the epistles Paul speaks of the changed lives of those to whom he preached.

As per john calvin, we are saved by faith alone, but the kind of faith that saves will NOT be alone, will have good works as befitting one who has been truely saved!

 

[DHK]

First off, no one has slandered you, including me. Drop your sword, no need to fall on it.

No more is required than the Gospel itself.

However.

Those that have truly been born again show evidence thereof. That's the Word of God. Note how in the epistles Paul speaks of the changed lives of those to whom he preached.

I am glad you believe that. When stated simply like I don't believe any different. But that is not LS.

 

[mandym]

Jesus said to Andrew and Peter, "Follow me and I will make you fishers of men." They were believers but not disciples. Notice the words carefully, "I will make you." They had to become disciples. Every believer does. It is part of the Great Commission. First they get saved, then baptized, and then discipled--"teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." Paul said in 1Cor.3 that the believers were babes in Christ and could only take milk. They were believers, but not yet adults, fully committed to following Christ. They could not take the meat of God's word that Paul wanted to feed them. They were yet carnal Christians and could not be fed the meat of God's word.

Fishers of men is a reference to soul winners not discipleship. Jesus never said they were not disciples. You work to break down salvation into parts just as the calvinists do where scripture does not. Jesus was certainly taking them to a greater walk in Him.

 

[mandym]

I am glad you believe that. When stated simply like I don't believe any different. But that is not LS.

You do not know what LS is.

 

[mandym]

As per john calvin, we are saved by faith alone, but the kind of faith that saves will NOT be alone, will have good works as befitting one who has been truely saved!

As per Jesus :

Joh 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.


Now you can follow Calvin or you can follow Jesus. But you can't do both.

 

[JesusFan]

As per Jesus :

Joh 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.


Now you can follow Calvin or you can follow Jesus. But you can't do both.

Even IF calvin was teaching the doctrines of the Bible?

think ALL here would agree that we follow Jesus and Him alone, its also true that God has given unto us gifted teachers like Calvin to learn from!

 

[preacher4truth]

I am glad you believe that. When stated simply like I don't believe any different. But that is not LS.

Part of the problem is that many have taken Lordship Salvation to task, yet, at the same time, totally misrepresent it, and turn it into a works based system.

That is not what it teaches at all.

I am glad you understand what the Gospel is, and I do not say so to be derogatory, nor to defame you. It is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, as you've also given the proper passage in 1 Corinthians 15. There are also some who say it includes the "and that He was seen" portion, so then, it is to them, the death, burial, resurrection and sighting of Christ. I have no problem with them, sobeit. The only issue I have is none of us have seen Him.

Most believers cannot tell others what it is.

 

[DHK]

I am glad you believe that. When stated simply like I don't believe any different. But that is not LS.

Lordship Salvation teaches that at the same time salvation takes place, or even as a requirement for salvation one must be able to:

And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:27)

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (Luke 9:23)

And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (Mark 8:34)

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mark 8:36-37)

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:37)

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

The requirements of these Scriptures for salvation makes LS totally unbiblical, and turns the simple message of salvation (1Cor.15:1-4) into a gospel of works.

 

[mandym]

Part of the problem is that many have taken Lordship Salvation to task, yet, at the same time, totally misrepresent it, and turn it into a works based system.

That is not what it teaches at all.

that's right

 

[DHK]

that's right

If I trust Christ as Lord, as per 1Cor.15:1-4, then he is Lord, whether or not I sin afterward. Do you think my actions afterward is going to take Christ off of his throne in heaven? Do I have the power to dethrone him as Lord? I think you know better than that. Nothing I do can change the fact that Christ is Lord.

 

[mandym]

If I trust Christ as Lord, as per 1Cor.15:1-4, then he is Lord, whether or not I sin afterward. Do you think my actions afterward is going to take Christ off of his throne in heaven? Do I have the power to dethrone him as Lord? I think you know better than that. Nothing I do can change the fact that Christ is Lord.

You continue to show that you do not understand the issue you want to chime in on.

 

[DHK]

You continue to show that you do not understand the issue you want to chime in on.

So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)
Have you forsaken all that you have, mandy?
Be honest.

Did you do it when you were saved?
Give your testimony.

According to LS, if you do not forsake all that you have at the time of your salvation you are not saved for you are not a disciple of Jesus; for they are one and the same thing.

 

[webdog]

{quote} actually, its the classic reformed position of justification before God...

the person places faith into the work of Christ done on the Cross for them, and receivre His forgivess/pardon/grace and eternal life in Christ...

After that, one WILL indeed reflect they are new creatures in christ, but that proves/confirms it, a result of being saved by god, NOT the cause of it![quote/]

Not "just ' a mental assent to the facts of the Gospel, but a change in heart, ie, repentance and faith in the person and work of Christ!

I think I found the source of your quoting blunders. the backslash (/) goes before the word quote ([/quote]), and don't hit shift when typing the brackets ([]) you are typing the wrong things ({})

 

[JesusFan]

I think I found the source of your quoting blunders. the backslash (/) goes before the word quote (

), and don't hit shift when typing the brackets ([]) you are typing the wrong things ({})[/QUOTE]

thanks! What did you think of the posting made on this point?

 

[freeatlast]

Where do you get your definitions from? The street?
It seems that you deny sola fide. That is the doctrine we uphold, contrary to LS advocates.

Well then uphold it. Scripture says to confess the Lord Jesus not the Savior Jesus. It says repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ not just believe. So no repentance no faith and no faith no salvation. Lordship salvation is what the bible teaches. A true believer and a disciple are the same.

 

[JesusFan]

Well then uphold it. Scripture says to confess the Lord Jesus not the Savior Jesus. It says repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ not just believe. So no repentance no faith and no faith no salvation. Lordship salvation is what the bible teaches. A true believer and a disciple are the same.

repentance/faith both gifts from God towards us, so the person who God has saved by the Cross will have jesus as His Lord and saviour, regardless IF he has "lordshipped" Him yet into their lives!

 

[DHK]

Well then uphold it. Scripture says to confess the Lord Jesus not the Savior Jesus. It says repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ not just believe. So no repentance no faith and no faith no salvation. Lordship salvation is what the bible teaches. A true believer and a disciple are the same.

If a believer is the same as a disciple then you would have obeyed the Lord's commands to be a disciple from the day that you were saved onward, right? Have you done that? Or do you just play the part of a hypocrite--tell people what to do, but don't do the same yourself.

For example, Jesus said:
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)
--Did you forsake all that you have when you became a Christian: yes or no? Please give your testimony.

 

[freeatlast]

If a believer is the same as a disciple then you would have obeyed the Lord's commands to be a disciple from the day that you were saved onward, right? Have you done that? Or do you just play the part of a hypocrite--tell people what to do, but don't do the same yourself.

For example, Jesus said:
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)
--Did you forsake all that you have when you became a Christian: yes or no? Please give your testimony.

The answer is yes I have obeyed from the moment of my salvation. I have not known all to obey from the moment of my salvation but what I knew I obeyed.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

It is the same for all who get saved. The problem is lies in what the Lord said;
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You can read my testimony here;
http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_56_My-Testimony

 

[freeatlast]

repentance/faith both gifts from God towards us, so the person who God has saved by the Cross will have jesus as His Lord and saviour, regardless IF he has "lordshipped" Him yet into their lives!

First, We are not saved by the cross. We are saved by grace. If they refuse to surrender to Him as their Lord they remain lost since refusing to surrender shows they have not repented.