Please define 'easy believism", as isn't it faith alone in Christ that does save?

[preacher4truth]

The answer is yes I have obeyed from the moment of my salvation. I have not known all to obey from the mopment of my but what I have known I obey.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

It is the same for all who get saved. The problem is lies in wat the Lord said;
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The thing is, when one gets truly saved he or she has given all to Jesus, all of their sin, and He is their Lord and subsequently forgives them and changes their lives.

Yet they are not aware of all of these passages of Scripture. Yet these passages become real to them as they hear preaching from genuine preachers who do not preach easy-believism.

DHK knows what these passages say, but fails to know what they mean, thus he interprets these statements as something one must "do" to be saved. That is not what Jesus is saying here. i.e. that we must "do" something to be saved. He is merely expressing what takes place in this transaction between He and His elect.

To the believer, these passages reflect what he or she has done at salvation.

Taken at face value as DHK erroneously interprets them? This would become a works-based salvation. This is why I say he completely misunderstands these passages.

 

[DHK]

The answer is yes I have obeyed from the moment of my salvation. I have not known all to obey from the moment of my salvation but what I knew I obeyed.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

It is the same for all who get saved. The problem is lies in what the Lord said;
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
You can read my testimony here;
http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_56_My-Testimony

You failed to answer the question:

For example, Jesus said:
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)
--Did you forsake all that you have when you became a Christian: yes or no? Please give your testimony.

I read your testimony. You did not "forsake all that you had."
According to your own theology you would not be saved, correct?
For you would not be a disciple of Jesus unless you had forsaken all that you have, which you did not do, and I doubt have ever done.

Thus your view of LS is bogus. You can sit in a chair and preach it but you can't obey it.

 

[freeatlast]

The thing is, when one gets truly saved he or she has given all to Jesus, all of their sin, and He is their Lord and subsequently forgives them and changes their lives.

Yet they are not aware of all of these passages of Scripture. Yet these passages become real to them as they hear preaching from genuine preachers who do not preach easy-believism.

DHK knows what these passages say, but fails to know what they mean, thus he interprets these statements as something one must "do" to be saved. That is not what Jesus is saying here. i.e. that we must "do" something to be saved. He is merely expressing what takes place in this transaction between He and His elect.

To the believer, these passages reflect what he or she has done at salvation.

Taken at face value as DHK erroneously interprets them? This would become a works-based salvation. This is why I say he completely misunderstands these passages.

Yes I agree.

 

[freeatlast]

You failed to answer the question:

For example, Jesus said:
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:33)
--Did you forsake all that you have when you became a Christian: yes or no? Please give your testimony.

I read your testimony. You did not "forsake all that you had."
According to your own theology you would not be saved, correct?
For you would not be a disciple of Jesus unless you had forsaken all that you have, which you did not do, and I doubt have ever done.

Thus your view of LS is bogus. You can sit in a chair and preach it but you can't obey it.

Yes I did forsake all. That is part of repentance. I did not come to Him with conditions nor does anyone who comes for salvation. Like I said I did not know all that was involved, but my heart was surrendered to all He wanted and still is. Repentance is done in spirit and seen in living. If we do not accept Him as Lord we do not get Him as savior. God does not save those who desire to remain in rebellion. All those who are saved are disciples, but not all who are disciples are saved.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes I did forsake all. That is part of repentance. I did not come to Him with conditions nor does anyone who comes for salvation. Like I said I did not know all that was involved, but my heart was surrendered to all He wanted and still is. Repentance is done in spirit and seen in living. If we do not accept Him as Lord we do not get Him as savior. God does not save those who desire to remain in rebellion.

:thumbsup:

Yet we have those who claim salvation yet lived in total sin since. Then later in life they came to practice behavior modification, morality, looked like a good ol' boy, taught a SS class and went into ministry.

 

[jbh28]

...

You need to learn the quote feature. You need to have an opening and closing quote. I can't read what you wrote here. If you can edit, make sure you have it that way.

 

[DHK]

Yes I did forsake all. That is part of repentance. I did not come to Him with conditions nor does anyone who comes for salvation. Like I said I did not know all that was involved, but my heart was surrendered to all He wanted and still is. Repentance is done in spirit and seen in living. If we do not accept Him as Lord we do not get Him as savior. God does not save those who desire to remain in rebellion. All those who are saved are disciples, but not all who are disciples are saved.

You gave your testimony online, right?
Forsaking all has nothing to do with repentance; it has everything to do with discipleship. They are two very different things. When Jesus told them to forsake all, he was telling them to the same thing that he told the rich man in Mark chapter 8.

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. (Mark 10:21)
--Did you sell everything--your house, your car, all your belongings: Did you give away the proceeds, give it all to the poor? Did you forsake all your worldly goods--absolutely everything!!

 

[convicted1]

since we as baptists would hold that one is saved by the Cross/grace of God done by the atonement of Christ for/on our behalf...

Apostle paul stated believe in your heart, confess that with your mouth, and you SHALL be saved...

isn't it the faith that allows us to access that and be saved, and good works/changed lives etc ALL proceed after that conversion point

isn't one saved immediatly by grace of God, and "Lordship" follows, but does NOT cause one to be saved?

Easy believism is coming to the front, giving the preacher your hand, and he then gets you to "repeat after me", and then say his "canned message" prayer, and voila, you're saved. No repentence required, either. Baloney!!

 

[Tater77]

A true easy believism preacher is like above, they sell a shiny product that isnt actually effective. Its a little more than walking the isle, saying a prayer.

But true lordshippers are nothing more than modern day pharisees heaping burdens on mens shoulders while not moving a finger themselves. Where is this "high cost of discipleship" that people like Johnny Mac talk of? Havent seen it yet. I have Christ, thus I have EVERYTHING I need for ANYTHING.

 

[preacher4truth]

A true easy believism preacher is like above, they sell a shiny product that isnt actually effective. Its a little more than walking the isle, saying a prayer.

But true lordshippers are nothing more than modern day pharisees heaping burdens on mens shoulders while not moving a finger themselves. Where is this "high cost of discipleship" that people like Johnny Mac talk of? Havent seen it yet. I have Christ, thus I have EVERYTHING I need for ANYTHING.

You also miss MacArthurs point which is truth and biblical while totally misrepresenting and misunderstanding LS. You've also cheapened discipleship, as do many within the church today, and mock those who are way ahead of themselves in devotion and walk spiritually by your inconsiderate implications. "All I need is Jesus" I hear from many many people, as though this makes them "super spiritual", while they don't even walk with Him, and/or have no standards that separate them from the crowd. It's a coput of convenience and a easy way of satisfaction of less devotion to Christ than He deserves.

I suppose Bonhoeffers book on discipleship "The Cost of Discipleship" was a waste of time and a lie, right? Wrong.

His is about the walk, not the talk. So is MacArthurs.

Unfortunately most "others" in the church only have the "talkin'" part down. You're preaching what the church wants to hear, that they can talk a good talk without walking a good walk, and teaching them to disdain discipleship and paying the price of it for Christ. Congrats.

I think you're selling what the fella in the picture in your quote was selling which I've left up above for you to consider.

 

[JesusFan]

You also miss MacArthurs point which is truth and biblical while totally misrepresenting and misunderstanding LS. You've also cheapened discipleship, as do many within the church today, and mock those who are way ahead of themselves in devotion and walk spiritually by your inconsiderate implications. "All I need is Jesus" I hear from many many people, as though this makes them "super spiritual", while they don't even walk with Him, and/or have no standards that separate them from the crowd. It's a coput of convenience and a easy way of satisfaction of less devotion to Christ than He deserves.

I suppose Bonhoeffers book on discipleship "The Cost of Discipleship" was a waste of time and a lie, right? Wrong.

His is about the walk, not the talk. So is MacArthurs.

Unfortunately most "others" in the church only have the "talkin'" part down. You're preaching what the church wants to hear, that they can talk a good talk without walking a good walk, and teaching them to disdain discipleship and paying the price of it for Christ. Congrats.

I think you're selling what the fella in the picture in your quote was selling which I've left up above for you to consider.

I tend to see it this way biblical!

That God enables me to believe upon Jesus as My saviour, His work to draw me/convict me/open my heart and mind to the truth and get saved...

After that point in time, after God regenerates me, I then will strat to bring my life under submission more and more

So "free grace" saves me, than LDS starts to happen lifelong process!

 

[freeatlast]

But true lordshippers are nothing more than modern day pharisees heaping burdens on mens shoulders while not moving a finger themselves.

Would you share what those burdens are?

 

[freeatlast]

I tend to see it this way biblical!

That God enables me to believe upon Jesus as My saviour, His work to draw me/convict me/open my heart and mind to the truth and get saved...

After that point in time, after God regenerates me, I then will strat to bring my life under submission more and more

So "free grace" saves me, than LDS starts to happen lifelong process!

Your confusion is that accepting Jesus as Lord means no grace when in fact accepting Jesus as Lord enables grace. God is not offering His Son to people who do not want Him for who He is and He is Lord. Trying to accept His work for us and reject His person is not what God offers. We either receive Jesus as Lord or we do not get His saving work.
No place does scripture say to confess Him as Savior. It does say confess the Lord Jesus.
If you do a search for the terms "Lord Jesus" it becomes clear that God never intended men to think that could get right with Him by claiming Jesus as Savior. One cannot remain in a spirit of rebellion and be granted salvation. Either Jesus is received as Lord or there is no salvation granted.
Here is a link on the Lord Jesus;
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=lord+jesus&t=KJV

 

[JesusFan]

Your confusion is that accepting Jesus as Lord means no grace when in fact accepting Jesus as Lord enables grace. God is not offering His Son to people who do not want Him for who He is and He is Lord. Trying to accept His work for us and reject His person is not what God offers. We either receive Jesus as Lord or we do not get His saving work.
No place does scripture say to confess Him as Savior. It does say confess the Lord Jesus.
If you do a search for the terms "Lord Jesus" it becomes clear that God never intended men to think that could get right with Him by claiming Jesus as Savior. One cannot remain in a spirit of rebellion and be granted salvation. Either Jesus is received as Lord or there is no salvation granted.
Here is a link on the Lord Jesus;
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=lord+jesus&t=KJV

You do realise though that when one comes to jesus, that he will be both their Lord and saviour at conversion, right?

once saved by Grace of God, jesus HAS sdaved us, and he is the Lord over us...

that is to ALL Christians, up to us from that point forward to apply Him as being to us in a practicle sense Lord over areas of my life!

God will take and save us right in the sin that we live in, and he deals with that at the Cross, and up to us to allow jesus more control over more areas of our lives, but ongoing lifelong process...

Salvation itself though is the Gift of God, at a one time point/decsion to receive Christ!

can you really say that one is a Christian from your theology UNLESS they have forsaken and is freed/clean from all know sins?

 

[percho]

Is Titus 3:5 a response by God the Father to Ephesians 2:8?

Is this what is called, "Sola fide"?

 

[DHK]

You gave your testimony online, right?
Forsaking all has nothing to do with repentance; it has everything to do with discipleship. They are two very different things. When Jesus told them to forsake all, he was telling them to the same thing that he told the rich man in Mark chapter 8.

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. (Mark 10:21)
--Did you sell everything--your house, your car, all your belongings: Did you give away the proceeds, give it all to the poor? Did you forsake all your worldly goods--absolutely everything!!

FAL
Repentance is simply a change of mind with respect to one's attitude to God. Yes, no doubt you have done that.

Give evidence in your life that you have forsaken all, as Jesus commanded: house, land, material things, everything you own, and simply followed Jesus. That is what Jesus commanded.

You have never done that have you.
According to LS if you have never done that you are not his disciple.
You have a decision to make:
Since believer = disciple, either you are not saved, OR,
LS theology is wrong.
Which is it?

 

[freeatlast]

FAL
Repentance is simply a change of mind with respect to one's attitude to God. Yes, no doubt you have done that.

Give evidence in your life that you have forsaken all, as Jesus commanded: house, land, material things, everything you own, and simply followed Jesus. That is what Jesus commanded.

You have never done that have you.
According to LS if you have never done that you are not his disciple.
You have a decision to make:
Since believer = disciple, either you are not saved, OR,
LS theology is wrong.
Which is it?

No amount of evidence can convince those who do not believe. The proof is that every passage in the bible dealing with salvation calls Jesus Lord. There is no passage that says we are to receive Him as savior. Lordship salvation simply accepts what the bible says. Easy believism does not. Unless a person receives Jesus as Lord they remain lost. Everyone who is saved ois a disciple, but not all disciples are saved.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, (not Savior) and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[freeatlast]

can you really say that one is a Christian from your theology UNLESS they have forsaken and is freed/clean from all know sins?

I have no theology except that of the bible. The people who believe the following know they are saved. Those who do not live in doubt and if they do are not doing what it says they are lost.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

 

[JesusFan]

I have no theology except that of the bible. The people who believe the following know they are saved. Those who do not live in doubt and if they do are not doing what it says they are lost.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

is the basis of your assurance that you are saved based upon how much/well that you have kept the Commandments of God, or based upon the Cross of Christ, where Jesus paid ALL of my sin debts to God, and fulfilled the Law perfectly, so that by faith ALONE I can be granted access to God now?

 

[JesusFan]

No amount of evidence can convince those who do not believe. The proof is that every passage in the bible dealing with salvation calls Jesus Lord. There is no passage that says we are to receive Him as savior. Lordship salvation simply accepts what the bible says. Easy believism does not. Unless a person receives Jesus as Lord they remain lost. Everyone who is saved ois a disciple, but not all disciples are saved.

How can it be "easy believism",as the work of God is to bring His elected ones to saving faith in Christ...

God applies the grace from/of the Cross towards us based upon Hos will, not IF we make jesus "Lord" as you are stating!

Jesus is the Lord over ALL who get saved by God, are you saying that those God saved and called Jesus as their saviour would somehow lose salvation if they failed to keep the Commandments to your expectations?

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, (not Savior) and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

HOW much of the Lordship of Jesus MSUT you know atpoint of salvation?
Must one understand fully all the doctrines of the faith before one can get saved, or live right enough/long enough to get saved by God?

Are you sure that its really Grace alone, by faith alone?

Or are you basing your relationship with God upon how well that you can keep all of the Law of God? That would be a Judaizer approach to the Gospel of Christ!