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Poll: #3, Suicide & Lapsi
- Thread starter Ed Edwards
- Start date
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Claudia_T said:If you are going to be a Martyr then you chicken out and get untied from the stake and go back home... and then you're going to be a Martyer again and yet again chicken out and get untied from the stake and go back home...
does that make you a Relapsi?
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer follows ...
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Jon-Marc said:Suicides go to hell only if they are lost without Christ. The only thing that causes anyone to go to hell is disbelief. I have no idea what Lapsi is.
'Lapsi' comes from the latin 'lapsus' = 'a fall'.
We get the English word 'lapse' = 'a slip of the
tongue, pen, or memory' from the Latin 'lapsus'.
Anyway, a lapsi is a person who, after having declared
Jesus as Lord and receiving Jesus as Savior,
the lapsi later denys Jesus is Lord.
During the Roman persecutions from 80AD
to 308AD one of the top ten leading questions
for Christians was "Can a Lapsi get saved again"?
or "Can a Lapsi go to heaven"?
(in the 21st century /2001-2100/ one of the top
ten questions Christians ask each other is
"if a woman who wears pants to church
dies, does she go straight to hell"?
The truth of the matter, Ed, is:Ed Edwards said:'Lapsi' comes from the latin 'lapsus' = 'a fall'.
We get the English word 'lapse' = 'a slip of the
tongue, pen, or memory' from the Latin 'lapsus'.
Anyway, a lapsi is a person who, after having declared
Jesus as Lord and receiving Jesus as Savior,
the lapsi later denys Jesus is Lord.
During the Roman persecutions from 80AD
to 308AD one of the top ten leading questions
for Christians was "Can a Lapsi get saved again"?
or "Can a Lapsi go to heaven"?
(in the 21st century /2001-2100/ one of the top
ten questions Christians ask each other is
"if a woman who wears pants to church
dies, does she go straight to hell"?
We live in America (or Canada). We enjoy all the luxuries of life. You have probably never lived in an Islamic nation that has been put under martial law, nor in a Communist nation that puts converts to death, nor in the time of the early emperors that carried out horrid persecutions against Christians, nor in the time of the Inquistions.
We live in the West, in modern civilizations where we have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and many other freedoms, most of which we take for granted. Reading biographies such as "To the Golden Shore," by Adoniram Judson would shed some light on the issue. Or other books by those that have gone into Communist lands like those by Richard Wurmbrandt.
Read of the Jews who endured the concentration camps without denying their God (and some Christians too).
The point of all this is simply that you can boast like Peter did: "I will never deny thee Lord," but when facing the sword, looking down a gun barrel, facing Chinese torture chambers, etc., the fact remains you don't know what you would do or say. Jesus forgave Peter for denying Him. He would forgive others for denying Him as well, especially if they were under such extreme circumstances. Coercion to deny Christ, is not really a denial of Christ. Being forced to say: I deny you, when in your heart you don't deny him, is not really a denial. There may be an element of cowardice there, but I wouldn't really consider it denial--not enough to keep one out of heaven. In other words the person under such pressure would not be going apostate which is an entirely different thing. I am hoping I am making some sense to you.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Amen, Brother DHK - you are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:
But our first choice aught to be to preserve unto the end.
And no doctrine of the Bible gives us a license to sin, none, nadda,
nix, zilch, zero; there is no sin license.
But our first choice aught to be to preserve unto the end.
And no doctrine of the Bible gives us a license to sin, none, nadda,
nix, zilch, zero; there is no sin license.
Diggin in da Word
New Member
DHK said:The truth of the matter, Ed, is:
We live in America (or Canada). We enjoy all the luxuries of life. You have probably never lived in an Islamic nation that has been put under martial law, nor in a Communist nation that puts converts to death, nor in the time of the early emperors that carried out horrid persecutions against Christians, nor in the time of the Inquistions.
We live in the West, in modern civilizations where we have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and many other freedoms, most of which we take for granted. Reading biographies such as "To the Golden Shore," by Adoniram Judson would shed some light on the issue. Or other books by those that have gone into Communist lands like those by Richard Wurmbrandt.
Read of the Jews who endured the concentration camps without denying their God (and some Christians too).
The point of all this is simply that you can boast like Peter did: "I will never deny thee Lord," but when facing the sword, looking down a gun barrel, facing Chinese torture chambers, etc., the fact remains you don't know what you would do or say. Jesus forgave Peter for denying Him. He would forgive others for denying Him as well, especially if they were under such extreme circumstances. Coercion to deny Christ, is not really a denial of Christ. Being forced to say: I deny you, when in your heart you don't deny him, is not really a denial. There may be an element of cowardice there, but I wouldn't really consider it denial--not enough to keep one out of heaven. In other words the person under such pressure would not be going apostate which is an entirely different thing. I am hoping I am making some sense to you.
Then you make Jesus out to be a liar! For Jesus said
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
One can deny Christ in one's heart, and still do good works making others who see him think he is a Christian. Many will say 'so and so did a Christian act today'.
But tthe one who speaks the very words, 'I deny Him' audibly, in the ears of others, Christ has promised to deny before the Father.
Peter cannot be used to say Christ will not hold a denial against you... unless you do as Peter did. He repented of his denial, and later Preached the Word boldly before men.
But be assured, if you deny Him before men, under duress or not, and you die before you repent and confess, He will be true to His Word. He will deny you before God.
Diggin in da Word said:Then you make Jesus out to be a liar!
My point in the other thread...that some folk are unable to maturely discuss issues...has been reinforced.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Diggin in da Word: //Then you make Jesus out to be a liar! For Jesus said
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before
men, him will I also deny before my Father
which is in heaven.//
1.
I request that you, knowing which version/edition you took
the scripture from, would you share that with us on each
quote? I'm required by God to verify every scripture you
(or anyone else) quote. You would be a better steward
of God's time if you would cite the version/edition
from which you quote a scirpture. It is also polite to
the folks who got that scripture to you, some of whom died
in their effort.
Your scripture you quoted looks very much like one of my
King James Version[v]s[/b] namely one of the
1769 Editions. Please use the following:
Matthew 10:33 (KJV1769 Edition):
But whosoever shall deny me before
men, him will I also deny before my Father
which is in heaven.
Thank you for helping out my ministry.
2.
Your term 'liar' is unkind.
I think it is much more polite in a debate to
(and required by the rules) to no infer motives
for the action of others. "Liar' is judgemental
and AGAINST THE RULES OF THE BIBLE
saying the person had impure motives for
telling something you think is untrue.
BTW, Everything the man said is based on
scriptures just like you use. But DHK sees them
a tad different than you see them. We are discussing
(or debating - gentlemanly/logically defined 'debate')
various scriptures and what they might mean. Others
read the posts we make and try to figure out how
that best means for their lives.
You look foolish when you leave the kind-person/logical
discussion for the unkind/illogical 'ad hominem':
attacking the human, instead of dealing with the topic at
hand.
In fact, I vouch for Brother DHK. His motives are pure
as the driven snow. He isn't perfect but his motives
are 99.44% pure (and the other 0.56% isn't at all
about debating, bulletinboarding, or snowboarding.).
Recommend this post:
Recommended: //What you say seems to contradict what Jesus said
Matthew 10:33 (KJV1769 Edition):
But whosoever shall deny me before
men, him will I also deny before my Father
which is in heaven.//
Kindly & gentlemanly this give him an out:
he has to either ignore you or show how there is no contradiction.
But the way you said it at first he (as the gallery will verify)
has every right to attack you back. You might even learn
something the way I suggest. You are only going to make
people mad with your approach AND BE IN LOGICAL,
MORAL, AND DOCTRINAL error. Nothing can be accomplished
with your approach.
My statements are made by an armed man who knows
how & when to shoot -- backed by cannon and canon.
3.
Claudia_T: //I really would just hate to think of being in Hell with a dress on.//
Hell isn't church - wear your pants if perchance you ever go there.
Diggin in da Word
New Member
Ed,
My post was unkind? Then you must think John was unkind when he wrote
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
No, it was not unkind... it was the truth. DHK apparently is ... [personal attack removed].
Sad to say, many posters on this board do.
[Moderator Warning: Debate the issue without resorting to making personal attacks against the person holding the opposing view. Likewise, the BB rules prohibit you from questioning the salvation of your fellow posters.]
My post was unkind? Then you must think John was unkind when he wrote
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
No, it was not unkind... it was the truth. DHK apparently is ... [personal attack removed].
Sad to say, many posters on this board do.
[Moderator Warning: Debate the issue without resorting to making personal attacks against the person holding the opposing view. Likewise, the BB rules prohibit you from questioning the salvation of your fellow posters.]
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Well I personally dont like conversing with someone who is calling me a liar, or saying Im making God out to be a liar, etc., just because I state my own views on a subject. I try to avoid talking to people like that from then on.
Because to me its a bad tactic and shows a lack of just good Biblical support for their positions. and then all they are going to do is try and make you look bad by calling you a liar. So from that point on I figure its just useless even wasting time talking to them.
Because to me its a bad tactic and shows a lack of just good Biblical support for their positions. and then all they are going to do is try and make you look bad by calling you a liar. So from that point on I figure its just useless even wasting time talking to them.
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Diggin in da Word said:Ed,
My post was unkind? Then you must think John was unkind when he wrote
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
No, it was not unkind... it was the truth. DHK apparently is serving a different Jesus than that of the Bible if he thinks Jesus is just going to deny His Word.
Sad to say, many posters on this board do.
Hey...I have a plan! Let's personally attack a mod!
Then let's stab ourselves in the eyballs with pencils!
Translation of DITW's "thoughts:"
- DHK disagrees with me; thus,
- DHK is serving Satan and hates Jesus, and
- So does anyone else who disagrees with me on anything.
Now playing: "Strike up the Banned"
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Luke 12:8 (KJV1611 Edition):
Also I say vnto you,
Whosoeuer shall confesse me before men,
him shall the Sonne of man also confesse
before the Angels of God.
Matthew 10:33 (KJV1611 Edition):
But whosoeuer shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father which is in heauen.
So here is a lapsi scenario:
TheEd confesses in public that 'Jesus is Lord'.
Jesus confesses before the Angles of God that
TheEd said "Jesus is Lord".
TheEd starts serving the Lord, serving the local
church, serving widows & fatherless children*
*(Fatherless children can have mothers, the Bible
frequently speaks of 'the fatherless child' instead
of 'an orphan'.)
In a general persecution of Christians TheEd,
under severe torture denies Jesus being his Lord.
Jesus denies TheEd before God the Father.
TheEd later in bitter tears repents of his infidelity
to the Lord and again pubicly declares:
"Jesus is my Lord & Savior".
What does Jesus do?
I believe that Jesus will do like the scripture says:
Jesus, the Son of Man, confesses TheEd
before the Angels of God.
Comment to Black & White-ists:
We are discussing the seeming conflict of
two scriptures as applied to actual situations.
We are not LYING about what Jesus said,
we are not denying any scirpture, we are discussing
how the scriptures work, what the scriptures
mean.
If at this point in my story, Jesus denies us,
then Luke 12:8 is conflicted.
If at this point in my story, Jesus says
we are saved - isn't he telling the truth also?
Also I say vnto you,
Whosoeuer shall confesse me before men,
him shall the Sonne of man also confesse
before the Angels of God.
Matthew 10:33 (KJV1611 Edition):
But whosoeuer shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father which is in heauen.
So here is a lapsi scenario:
TheEd confesses in public that 'Jesus is Lord'.
Jesus confesses before the Angles of God that
TheEd said "Jesus is Lord".
TheEd starts serving the Lord, serving the local
church, serving widows & fatherless children*
*(Fatherless children can have mothers, the Bible
frequently speaks of 'the fatherless child' instead
of 'an orphan'.)
In a general persecution of Christians TheEd,
under severe torture denies Jesus being his Lord.
Jesus denies TheEd before God the Father.
TheEd later in bitter tears repents of his infidelity
to the Lord and again pubicly declares:
"Jesus is my Lord & Savior".
What does Jesus do?
I believe that Jesus will do like the scripture says:
Jesus, the Son of Man, confesses TheEd
before the Angels of God.
Comment to Black & White-ists:
We are discussing the seeming conflict of
two scriptures as applied to actual situations.
We are not LYING about what Jesus said,
we are not denying any scirpture, we are discussing
how the scriptures work, what the scriptures
mean.
If at this point in my story, Jesus denies us,
then Luke 12:8 is conflicted.
If at this point in my story, Jesus says
we are saved - isn't he telling the truth also?
His Blood Spoke My Name
New Member
[Moderator Warning: If you have a problem with a forum moderator BB protocol is for you to first attempt to address it via PM with the moderator in question. If you continue to run into the same issue with the same moderator BB protocol is for you the notify a BB Administrator and/or the BB Webmaster via PM. It is not a good idea for you to "air your dirty laundry" in an open public forum.]
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tragic_pizza
New Member
Moderators are moderators, and if they need talking to, it happens in moderator areas.
Why do you care what DHK says or does? Does he decide your mood for the day, your eternal disposition, or anything else?
Why do you care what DHK says or does? Does he decide your mood for the day, your eternal disposition, or anything else?
tragic_pizza said:Moderators are moderators, and if they need talking to, it happens in moderator areas.
Why do you care what DHK says or does? Does he decide your mood for the day, your eternal disposition, or anything else?
we could start a thread on that subject and discuss it (only joking)