Poll: #3, Suicide & Lapsi

[DHK]

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

For the sake of clarity, I will ask a more direct question: Have you ever lived any length of time in an Islamic nation?

I have indeed lived in an Islamic nation. I lived amongst the Muslim people for over a year. I know the dangers they pose to Christians because of their hatred for the One True God.

Had I or any of my family denied Christ to save our lives Christ would have denied us.

Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

John 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Believing is more than faith, it is action as well. You can say you believe all day long and still be as lost as the muslim

 

[Amy.G]

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Believing is more than faith, it is action as well. You can say you believe all day long and still be as lost as the muslim

Believe means: cleave to, trust, rely on, have faith in. This is not the belief of demons.

 

[webdog]

Faith is belief in action.

Case in point...a few years back when K-mart filed bankruptcy, and their stock fell to $.18 a share, I BELIEVED it would be a good investment in buying as many shares as I could afford. Needless to say, I didn't...Sears bought K-Mart, and their stock sits today over $100 a share. While I believed it would be a good investment, I did not step out in faith and put all I could afford into buyin the stock. If I would have, I would have shown faith in the company and stock situation...not just "belief".

 

[DHK]

Ed,

My post was unkind? Then you must think John was unkind when he wrote

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

No, it was not unkind... it was the truth. DHK apparently is serving a different Jesus than that of the Bible if he thinks Jesus is just going to deny His Word.

Sad to say, many posters on this board do.

This is your second post on this thread (page 12). Your first post (also an attack on me) was on page 11. How many pages has this thread gone on now? Is this what you exist for?
I have answered your points one by one. You have an inability to carry on debate. That is evident by the above post? When the person in the debate has nothing left to say he resorts to adhominems, like you did above, and in most of your posts. You need to grow up.

Why do you ignore Scripture? If your view on Scripture (entire sanctification is correct) then,
What about Annanias and Sapphira who had just lied to the Holy Spirit (in effect denied God) and then were immediately killed by God. Were they saved or not? Why have you avoided such questions.

What about the believers in Corinth that were judged with death for abusing the Lord's table (1Cor.11:30), with possibly no chance to repent? Are you judging them to be in Hell as well?

I ask you again: Who set you up as God, and sole arbitrator of the one who decides who will go to heaven and who will not? Who put you in the place of God. Your inferences by the way that you speak (sad to say) are much like the words of the one who spoke the words recorded in Isaiah 14:13,14.

But just answer the questions. Are Ananias and Sapphira in heaven or in hell, and how do you know?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The Bible never says they were of the Church. It further says they lied to the Holy Ghost. It further says that they dropped dead immediately after Peter told them they lied.

Their fruits were not fruit unto righteousness. They tried to deceive, which is not of God. I believe they are in hell.

Now, I have answered your questions, why do you refuse to answer the question set forth by Bob and I?

Afraid of admitting something?

 

[rbell]

I ask you again: Who set you up as God, and sole arbitrator of the one who decides who will go to heaven and who will not? Who put you in the place of God. Your inferences by the way that you speak (sad to say) are much like the words of the one who spoke the words recorded in Isaiah 14:13,14.

But just answer the questions. Are Ananias and Sapphira in heaven or in hell, and how do you know?

all good questions.

 

[Ed Edwards]

well to me Ed, you're just giving the same picture as was Peter who denied Jesus under pressure then went back and repented and Jesus said "Feed My Sheep"...

unless Im misunderstanding what you are saying

Apparently you understand perfectly what I said.

Generally when someone tells me what I think,
it isn't what I think. Being a kindly person, I note
Sister Claudia_T tells what she thinks instead of
as (name omitted) who tells me what I think.
I don't always believe what Sister Claudia_T beleives
but I can always respect that she believes it without
performing virtual woman beating. Guys who beat up
women (virtually, mentally, spiritually, or physically) have
mental problems of some kind - check with your
mental professional for exact details.

While the great majority of cases surely Suicide and Lapsi
will be punishable, there are examples where
it might be possible to be forgiven of these offences
without asking. I really can't see THE NATURE OF GOD
as being one who relishes FLASH FRYING His children
for all eternity cause they mess up a time or two.
Nothing I say here negates any scripture.

 

[rbell]

Their fruits were not fruit unto righteousness. They tried to deceive, which is not of God. I believe they are in hell.

Emphasis above mine

Thank you. Ultimately, God is the judge. I vehemently defend your statement you make: "I believe..." I have no problems here. You've interpreted God's Word and come to a conclusion. Honestly, you may be right...I don't know where they are now. But it leaves the verdict in the Right Hands...not in ours.


This critical distinction allows for discussion, rather than conflict.

 

[Claudia_T]

Actually now that I think about this some more... if you look at this verse, I believe it is about our Christian growth process...

Mk:4:28: For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

And what IF you were a brand new Christian who was burned at the stake for your belief in God?

would God really expect you to be able to endure that at that stage of your growth?


Claudia

 

[DHK]

The Bible never says they were of the Church. It further says they lied to the Holy Ghost. It further says that they dropped dead immediately after Peter told them they lied.

Their fruits were not fruit unto righteousness. They tried to deceive, which is not of God. I believe they are in hell.

Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
--It was a "Christian community," They were all new believers in Christ. There is no reason to believe that they were not unsaved.

Acts 4:36-37 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
--They wanted to imitate one of the spiritual leaders in the church. Why would they be in the church in the first place. Would the apostles have baptized unsaved individuals. The church was composed of baptized believers. This was "the First Baptist Church at Jerusalem."

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
--They lied to the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
--They tempted the Spirit of God.

I would very much dispute that an unsaved person is able to either lie or tempt the Spirit of God. In fact they cannot. Their spirit remains dead, inoperable to the Spirit of God. They cannot tempt the Spirit of God for they know not the Spirit of God. They had to be believers in order to put themselves into such a position.
Notice what the Bible says about the spirit in Ephesians:

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
--You has he made alive who were "dead" in trespasses in sin. Their spirit was dead, inoperable before the Holy Spirit came in and saved them. A dead spirit cannot tempt the Holy Spirit. They were saved individuals.

The Bible says "Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world."
But look at Eph.2:2

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
--If they were unsaved, they would walk according to the prince of the power of air, the spirit that now works in the children obedience. That spirit cannot tempt the Holy Spirit. These were saved individuals.
It doesn't make sense theologically to say that they were unsaved.

Thus these saved individuals died having lied to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Claudia_T]

How can you lie to the Holy Spirit?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The Holy Spirit is in the Believer, and the Believe will not lie to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The scripture describes a shoe.
If the shoe fits, wear it.


Mat 23:13,15 (KJV1611 Edition):
But woe vnto you, Scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites; for yee shut vp the kingdom of heauen
against men: For yee neither goe
in your selues, neither suffer ye them that
are entring, to goe in.
14 ...
15 Woe vnto you Scribes and Pharises, hypocrites;
for yee compasse Sea and land to make one Proselyte,
and when hee is made,
yee make him two fold more the childe of hell then your selues.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Ananias and Sapphira proved they were not of the Lord. The truth was not in them.

The fruit revealed the manner of tree they truly were.

To say they were saved is contrary to 1 John 2:4

 

[DHK]

The Holy Spirit is in the Believer, and the Believe will not lie to the Holy Spirit.

That is not true.
Why are there commands in the Bible, given to Christians:
Quench not the Spirit.
Grieve not the Spirit.

And many other commands are given. The Holy Spirit is a person, and the believer can lie, quench, grieve the Holy Spirit, as much as he can do the same to any other person.

 

[DHK]

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Ananias and Sapphira proved they were not of the Lord. The truth was not in them.

You set yourself up as God again. How do you know the truth was not in them? Are you God?
How arrogant?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

One can quench or grieve the Spirit without lieing to Him. Each time you don't witness to one who is lost when you have the opportunity, you grieve Him. When you feel the Spirit telling you to do something and ignore Him, you quench His moving in your life.


A true Believer will not lie to the Spirit.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

You set yourself up as God again. How do you know the truth was not in them? Are you God?
How arrogant?

You set yourself up as God again. How do you know the truth was in them? You are the one saying they were saved when the Scripture clearly shows they were not. Are you God?
How arrogant!