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Poll- Do babies that die go to hell?

Poll- Do babies that die go to hell?

  • Total voters
    36
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percho

Well-Known Member
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Greektim said:
No... David said he would go to his son... probably referring to the grave. That seems most likely since the next phrase says that his son would not return to him. David was speaking in the mortal world.
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I believe you are correct.

Once again.

Fifty days after the resurrection of Jesus was the soul of David still left in Hades and had his flesh seen corruption?

Also where was the soul of David's son on that selfsame day and had his flesh seen corruption?
 
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Y

Yeshua1

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Greektim said:
No... David said he would go to his son... probably referring to the grave. That seems most likely since the next phrase says that his son would not return to him. David was speaking in the mortal world.
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He expected to be reconciled with his on, and to see him again though. correct?
 
Greektim

Greektim

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
He expected to be reconciled with his on, and to see him again though. correct?
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The passage doesn't say "again". Read a similar statement in Genesis this morning:

Gen 37:35 All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted and said, "No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning." Thus his father wept for him.

Likely this is also a reference to the grave-site since Sheol means grave in many/most cases in the OT.
 
D

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Greektim said:
The passage doesn't say "again". Read a similar statement in Genesis this morning:

Gen 37:35 All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted and said, "No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning." Thus his father wept for him.

Likely this is also a reference to the grave-site since Sheol means grave in many/most cases in the OT.
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I believe it was Vine (I could be mistaken) that said "not once in the OT does Sheol require a translation of "grave." It means "place of the departed dead."
We have a picture of that in the NT with the rich man and Lazarus. I believe it was in the Jewish mind to think of Sheol as that place (he place of the departed dead) rather than the western mind's conception (grave = six feet under). Hence, in many translations the word is not even translated but simply left as "Sheol."
 
O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
2 Samuel 12:23. But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

John Gill writes of 2 Samuel 12:23

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? &c.] And pray; it is to no purpose, no end can be thought to be answered by it:

can I bring him back again? from the state of the dead, bring him to life by fasting, and praying, and weeping; that is not to e expected:

I shall go to him; to the state of the dead, to the grave, where his body was, or would be; to heaven and eternal happiness, where his soul was, as he comfortably hoped and believed: from whence it appears, that the Old Testament saints did not suppose an annihilation at death; but believed the immortality of the soul, a future state after death of eternal life and bliss:

but he shall not return to me; in the present mortal state, though at the resurrection they should meet again.
 
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percho

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I would think that Sheol/Hades is the state/estate of death.

Well of all things a JW just came to the door. Went out and talked to him about my peppers growing in the flower bed in front yard.

Interesting.

Once again.


Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me (David) the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. A2:27,28,29

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of (the) Christ, :from A2:30,31

Where was the soul of David on this day?

I will answer, Dead in Hades, he was dead in faith, of the obedience of his seed Jesus, the Son of the Living God, unto death and being raised from the dead by God the Father of Jesus.
 
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percho

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OldRegular said:
2 Samuel 12:23. But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

John Gill writes of 2 Samuel 12:23

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? &c.] And pray; it is to no purpose, no end can be thought to be answered by it:

can I bring him back again? from the state of the dead, bring him to life by fasting, and praying, and weeping; that is not to e expected:

I shall go to him; to the state of the dead, to the grave, where his body was, or would be; to heaven and eternal happiness, where his soul was, as he comfortably hoped and believed: from whence it appears, that the Old Testament saints did not suppose an annihilation at death; but believed the immortality of the soul, a future state after death of eternal life and bliss:

but he shall not return to me; in the present mortal state, though at the resurrection they should meet again.
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I think Gill is wrong about what they believed. Did Job believe his soul went to heaven and he saw his maker or did he believe even though his body be eaten up he would in his flesh stand before his maker, on the earth?
 
O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
percho said:
I would think that Sheol/Hades is the state/estate of death.

Well of all things a JW just came to the door. Went out and talked to him about my peppers growing in the flower bed in front yard.

Interesting.

Once again.


Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me (David) the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. A2:27,28,29

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of (the) Christ, :from A2:30,31

Where was the soul of David on this day?

I will answer, Dead in Hades, he was dead in faith, of the obedience of his seed Jesus, the Son of the Living God, unto death and being raised from the dead by God the Father of Jesus.
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When David died his soul/spirit went to be with GOD!
 
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percho

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OldRegular said:
When David died his soul/spirit went to be with GOD!
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What is soul/spirit? What are the Hebrew/Greek words for soul/spirit and are soul/spirit the same according to the word of God?

I can find where the spirit returns to God who gave it however where can i find that the soul returns to God who gave it?


If David was speaking of the Christ instead of himself concerning his soul being left in Hades and this being relative to the resurrection then what of the soul of David?

It was the soul of Christ that wasn't left in Hades concerning the resurrection. When did the soul of Christ find itself in Hades? How long was the soul of Christ in Hades? When did the soul of Christ leave Hades?


And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ”fn Having said this, He breathed His last. Luke 23:46 There went the the spirit back to God his Father who gave it. Did the soul pass through the gates of Hades when that in bold took place?
 
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percho

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Yeshua1 said:
But heaven is our home!
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Where is that written in the word of God. Now before you start quoting scriptures such as 2 Cor 5:8 that is a conclusion drawn by reading between a lot of lines. It does not say heaven is our home. In Phil. 3:20 we are governed from heaven yet that verse speaks of us looking for Jesus to come from heaven. Why, to change out vile body like unto his glorious body. This is at his coming. Coming for what? To establish his kingdom, the kingdom of God on the earth, and to judge the quick and the dead 2 Tim 4:1. To change the vile bodies of those who are his own. Nothing said about returning to heaven.

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Does this city come down out of heaven to the earth?
 
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percho

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Greektim said:
No... new creation is our destiny. Heaven is for a bodiless existence. God intended me to have a body, a resurrected one. This is why I accuse of a neo-platonic influence in western christian theology.
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The very reason I started thread about house not made with hands. Can we be in the presence of God the Father or Jesus the Son without a body.

One thing for sure while we are present in the body subject to be dissolved we cannot be in the presence of the Lord. Now do we receive our house not made with hands, our house which is from heaven, before or after the coming of the Lord?
 
Jedi Knight

Jedi Knight

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Greektim said:
No... he really compared his theology to that of a 9 year old's. I was just asking to be sure.
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Too affraid take my challenge I see. Do you need a theological lesson to add 2+2=4? We'll I guess if you fancy yourself you do.
 
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