Poll for Reformed/DoG/Calvinists only

[Winman]

Please read the detailed poll choices below before you vote. I had to keep the poll questions under 100 characters in the actual poll, so I was not able to include detail. So please read the more detailed questions below before you make your choice.

In another thread, DHK said I have misrepresented Calvinists, and that I should take a poll. That is exactly what I am going to do.

DHK got the idea that I claimed most Calvinists believe God sends babies to hell, when in fact I said that if you poll Christians, probably at least 95% or more would say God does not send babies to hell. So, I hardly see how this equates to saying I believe most Calvinists believe God sends babies to hell, but oh well.

Please note that your name will appear in the poll, it is only fair that you know that before you vote.

You are allowed one vote only.

The poll choices must be very short, so I will explain the choices here in more detail.

#1 You believe all babies that die in infancy are elect, and therefore God sends all babies who die in infancy to heaven.

#2 You believe it is possible that some babies are NOT elect, and therefore God would send these non-elect babies who die in infancy to hell when they die.

Thank you for your honesty.

 

[psalms109:31]

"If we had a god whose name was Moloch; if God were an arbitrary tyrant, without benevolence or grace, we could imagine some infants being cast into hell."

C.H. Spurgeon.

Infants are in His rest. I don't know when children come out of the rest and begin to work to have to enter the rest.
I know our God is just and can judge when that will be like a jury tries to see if a child can be tried as an adult.
Our God is perfect and judges right.

I am not here to judge the world, but to save it Jesus says paraphrazing

There will be a time for judgment and when it comes the goats will be separated from His sheep. Those goats who leads those poor sheep that was not His to the pit of desruction.

Most people are sheep just following something or someone few are the leaders leading them.

 

[kyredneck]

...Infants are in His rest. ....

I see you voted. When did you become a Calvinist?

 

[psalms109:31]

I see you voted. When did you become a Calvinist?

I am Spurgeon Calvinist, they wouldn't let me on the puritan site and I wouldn't want to.

 

[Winman]

I am Spurgeon Calvinist, they wouldn't let me on the puritan site and I wouldn't want to.

Thank you for voting.

 

[Greektim]

I tend to think that one's status of election is dependent on God's free and sovereign choice, not on someone's age. The harsh truth for children is the same. God's choice is not based on our merit or lack thereof. Why would it be any different for children? B/c they are "innocent"? God has killed his share of babies in the past. He will continue on into the future I suspect. So that is not at issue. What is at issue for Calvinists is whether God's standard for election is different for some rather than others.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am Spurgeon Calvinist, they wouldn't let me on the puritan site and I wouldn't want to.

Why wouldn't they?

 

[Rippon]

Why wouldn't they?

Ps. isn't a Calvinist. He doesn't agree with the 1689 for instance. And if he's claiming to be a Calvinist now I sincerely doubt that he has changed his position on a number of issues.

 

[Winman]

I tend to think that one's status of election is dependent on God's free and sovereign choice, not on someone's age. The harsh truth for children is the same. God's choice is not based on our merit or lack thereof. Why would it be any different for children? B/c they are "innocent"? God has killed his share of babies in the past. He will continue on into the future I suspect. So that is not at issue. What is at issue for Calvinists is whether God's standard for election is different for some rather than others.

Thank you for your vote Tim, and for your explanation of your view. :thumbs:

 

[Rippon]

Those goats who leads those poor sheep that was not His to the pit of desruction.[sc]

Yep, you haven't changed a bit. You're still pushing this nonsense Ps.

 

[steaver]

I didn't vote although I would fall under DoG. Scripture is not clear about the question.

 

[Van]

Being a non-Calvinist, I have no vote.

But just for grins, lets consider the poll. Do people when they die go to "hell?" Nope. The unsaved spirits go to Hades. When the sea, death and Hades give up the dead, they are judged at the Great White Throne, and then tossed into the Lake of Fire, believed to be in Gehenna.

So the question should be do some unbelieving babies go to Hades when they die, or do all the spirits of those who die before the age of accountability get a free pass to heaven?

As someone said, 95% of those claiming belief in biblical doctrine will say they get a free pass to heaven. No actual biblical support will be provided. Some try to have David saying he will join his dead son means more than joining in death, but the argument is from silence.

Someone else said the Bible is not clear. But in reality it is, but people do not like the doctrine. Unbelievers are condemned already, before the age of accountability, because of Adam's sin. Winman will post the usual arguments to deny the plain reading, i.e. the many were made sinners with many referring to everyone other than the One, Christ.

 

[psalms109:31]

Why wouldn't they?

The main reason is because I will not ascribe to what man say nor I am afraid of a doctrine nor a person.

There is so much much more to learn from scripture than a 1600 belief system.

Spurgeon himself said the Bible and the Bible alone is the religion of the protestants

I do show why from scripture but we all end at war between scripture and scripture instead of believing both.

The day we stop learning the day we stop growing and maturing.

I am not an arm is because I do not ascribe to free will, either we are doing His will being changed or ours that leads to destruction there is no other.

If I must pick between Calvinism or Arminian then it would be calvinism, I think free will is ridiculous just like regeneration before faith is.

A Calvininst named Spurgeon agrees with me. If I must pick a teacher that I just don't go by just how I see scripture so I will not be going just on my word only it will be Spurgeon a Calvinist.

I see by listening to Spurgeon many Calvinist are wrong in their understanding.

I truly believe some of the residue like regeneration before faith that Spurgeon had a war against from Hyper Calvinism has stayed in Calvinism.


If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. But you will tell me that I ought to preach it only to those who repent of their sins. Very well; but since true repentance of sin is the work of the Spirit, any man who has repentance is most certainly saved, because evangelical repentance never can exist in an unrenewed soul. Where there is repentance there is faith already, for they never can be separated. So, then, I am only to preach faith to those who have it. Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners. “Nay,” saith one, “but we mean that a man must have some good desires towards Christ before he has any warrant to believe in Jesus.” Friend, do you not know what all good desires have some degree of holiness in them? But if a sinner hath any degree of true holiness in him it must be the work of the Spirit, for true holiness never exists in the carnal mind, therefore, that man is already renewed, and therefore saved. Are we to go running up and down the world, proclaiming life to the living, casting bread to those who are fed already, and holding up Christ on the pole of the gospel to those who are already healed? My brethren, where is our inducement to labour where our efforts are so little needed? If I am to preach Christ to those who have no goodness, who have nothing in them that qualifies them for mercy, then I feel I have a gospel so divine that I would proclaim it with my last breath, crying aloud, that “Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—sinners as sinners, not as penitent sinners or as awakened sinners, but sinners as sinners, sinners “of whom I am chief.”

C.H. Spurgeon

I agree with most of what Spurgeon spoke but am told I am not a Calvinist.

 

[TCassidy]

As with all things from Winman the correct answer is not in the poll. Figures.

 

[steaver]

I see by listening to Spurgeon many Calvinist are wrong in their understanding.

I truly believe some of the residue like regeneration before faith that Spurgeon had a war against from Hyper Calvinism has stayed in Calvinism.


If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. But you will tell me that I ought to preach it only to those who repent of their sins. Very well; but since true repentance of sin is the work of the Spirit, any man who has repentance is most certainly saved, because evangelical repentance never can exist in an unrenewed soul. Where there is repentance there is faith already, for they never can be separated. So, then, I am only to preach faith to those who have it. Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners. “Nay,” saith one, “but we mean that a man must have some good desires towards Christ before he has any warrant to believe in Jesus.” Friend, do you not know what all good desires have some degree of holiness in them? But if a sinner hath any degree of true holiness in him it must be the work of the Spirit, for true holiness never exists in the carnal mind, therefore, that man is already renewed, and therefore saved. Are we to go running up and down the world, proclaiming life to the living, casting bread to those who are fed already, and holding up Christ on the pole of the gospel to those who are already healed? My brethren, where is our inducement to labour where our efforts are so little needed? If I am to preach Christ to those who have no goodness, who have nothing in them that qualifies them for mercy, then I feel I have a gospel so divine that I would proclaim it with my last breath, crying aloud, that “Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—sinners as sinners, not as penitent sinners or as awakened sinners, but sinners as sinners, sinners “of whom I am chief.”

C.H. Spurgeon

I agree with most of what Spurgeon spoke but am told I am not a Calvinist.

You gotta love Calvinist, they can't even agree among themselves on their doctrinal positions. Should tell you something about Calvinism........God is not the author of confusion raying:

 

[psalms109:31]

You gotta love Calvinist, they can't even agree among themselves on their doctrinal positions. Should tell you something about Calvinism........God is not the author of confusion raying:

Jesus did not come to bring peace but a sword, brother against brother, you know the rest.

The sword is the word of God.

It isn't a physical sword, but a spiritual one.

 

[steaver]

Jesus did not come to bring peace but a sword, brother against brother, you know the rest.

The sword is the word of God.

It isn't a physical sword, but a spiritual one.

Come now brother, that passage is not about Christian brothers and sisters.

Phl1:27 - "Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel".

Phl2:2 - "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

1Pe3:8 - "Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous."

Boy, how we all doing with that last one? raying:

 

[psalms109:31]

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Ephesians 6:17
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Matthew 18:
15 “If your brother or sister[The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35.] sins,[Some manuscripts sins against you] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[Deut. 19:15] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[Or will have been] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[Or will have been] loosed in heaven.

We are to be in peace I agree, but we carry a sword the word of God! Sometimes we have to use it against each other

 

[robt.k.fall]

Personally, I rephrase the first response to read:

All babies who die are elect. As such, they all go to heaven.

 

[SolaSaint]

I voted for #2, for if I'm to believe Romans 9, then I must be consistent. I had never thought about that question Winman, thanks for posting. Is this why Presby's believe in infant baptism?