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Poll: Was Nero the "beast/antichrist"?
- Thread starter robycop3
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Voting "not" - I'm haven't considered the other threads as I think a specific identification is now unnecessary. THere are many antichrists to be concerned about, some seem nice people & popular & so all the more dangerous.
In John's day there were many antichrists, presumably one was recognised by the Jerusalem Christians before they fled. We haven't an inspired history of the destruction, only prophecy so we don't know his name.
Paul in 2 Thes. 2 refers to "the man of sin" as an individual who will be known. He has specifically warned the Thessalonians, presumably because the Thessalonian Jews were particularly antichristian, pursuing Paul to Berea. AC would become evident by his usurped authority in the Jerusalem temple - God's temple that Jesus claimed & condemned - not some latter day temple yet to be built by people claiming God's authority. He was destroyed by Jesus coming for the destruction.
The beast of Revelation, with his association with the Abyss, seems to be Satan whom Jesus destroyed at Calvary yet many still recognise his power & authority & act as his servants in order to deceive. They will come to a complete & final end when Jesus returns for resurrection & judgment. Note that many references to "earth" could equally refer to the "land" of Israel. When John wrote, Jesus' coming for the judgment of those who rejected him ..... must soon take place..... because the time is near.
John alludes to Jesus' Olivet prophecy a coming that will take place in the lifetime of "this generation" -
1:7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth tribes of the land “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.
Mat. 24:30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all peoples on earth tribes of the land will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
In John's day there were many antichrists, presumably one was recognised by the Jerusalem Christians before they fled. We haven't an inspired history of the destruction, only prophecy so we don't know his name.
Paul in 2 Thes. 2 refers to "the man of sin" as an individual who will be known. He has specifically warned the Thessalonians, presumably because the Thessalonian Jews were particularly antichristian, pursuing Paul to Berea. AC would become evident by his usurped authority in the Jerusalem temple - God's temple that Jesus claimed & condemned - not some latter day temple yet to be built by people claiming God's authority. He was destroyed by Jesus coming for the destruction.
The beast of Revelation, with his association with the Abyss, seems to be Satan whom Jesus destroyed at Calvary yet many still recognise his power & authority & act as his servants in order to deceive. They will come to a complete & final end when Jesus returns for resurrection & judgment. Note that many references to "earth" could equally refer to the "land" of Israel. When John wrote, Jesus' coming for the judgment of those who rejected him ..... must soon take place..... because the time is near.
John alludes to Jesus' Olivet prophecy a coming that will take place in the lifetime of "this generation" -
1:7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth tribes of the land “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.
Mat. 24:30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all peoples on earth tribes of the land will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
No, he was a type of the future Antichrist still yet to come.
If you'd included 'maybe'
I'd 'maybe' vote that.Nero was 'maybe' the PERSONIFICATION of the sixth head of the beast which was the Roman Empire, at the time the book was written. At that time the seventh head was yet to come, the five prior heads were past (Egyptian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire). Antiochus Epiphanes would most likely 'maybe' have been the 'personification' of the Grecian Empire (as concerning the persecution of the Woman of Gen 3:15 & Rev 12), Ahasuerus may have been the personification of the Persian Empire, Nebuchadnezzar perhaps was the personification for Babylonian Empire, Sennacherib would most likely qualify for the Assyrian Empire, and the Pharaoh of the Exodus would be the personification of the Egyptian Empire. The ten Germanic kings of the seventh head is anyone's guess, but I would identify Hitler as filling the bill for one of them.
Final Antichrist has not yet appeared in world history, as that awaiting the time of the Second Coming itself!If you'd included 'maybe'
Nero was 'maybe' the PERSONIFICATION of the sixth head of the beast which was the Roman Empire, at the time the book was written. At that time the seventh head was yet to come, the five prior heads were past (Egyptian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire). Antiochus Epiphanes would most likely 'maybe' have been the 'personification' of the Grecian Empire (as concerning the persecution of the Woman of Gen 3:15 & Rev 12), Ahasuerus may have been the personification of the Persian Empire, Nebuchadnezzar perhaps was the personification for Babylonian Empire, Sennacherib would most likely qualify for the Assyrian Empire, and the Pharaoh of the Exodus would be the personification of the Egyptian Empire. The ten Germanic kings of the seventh head is anyone's guess, but I would identify Hitler as filling the bill for one of them.
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Nope, as the Resurrection of the Body of Christ , His Church, never happened yet!
Yep. "For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry" does not mean thousands of years and still waiting.
28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation. Heb 9
37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10
His 'second coming' was upon that generation that murdered Him:
38 But the husbandmen, when they saw the son, said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and take his inheritance.
39 And they took him, and cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him.
40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner; This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.
45 And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. Mt 21
Oh, REALLY?
Then, when did Jesus rule the world from Jerusalem for 1K years? And how come the saints that died are still dead?
Sorry; those events are entirely absent from history. They would not have been overlooked!
Again, Nero was a bad boy, but so were Caligula, Domitian, etc. followed by many as bad or worse, from Attila to Genghis Khan to Tamerlane to several Chinese warlords, to Napoleon, to Hitler & Stalin, to Idi Amin and Pol Pot to El-Baghdadi. But "the" antichrist/beast will be worse than all of them together, ruling most of the world, as Rev. 13 says. That's never happened before.
20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Lu 17
18 For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
22 but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, Heb 12
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18
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The antichrist that you imagine is just that, a fictional character inspired by the sensationalism of Dispensationalism. I'm beginning to think that you have 'antichrist on the brain'. Ultimately the beast is also spiritual, he too cannot be seen with the eye or touched with the hand:
12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6
Hmmmm...
Ya forgot all about the saints "reigning with christ for a thousand years". When did THAT happen?
Scripture plainly mentions ONE MAN, with Revelation giving him a sidekick in Rev. 13. It says nothing about him being symbolic, & neither did Daniel nor Paul. And the imagination here is the preterism trash.
MMRRPP ! WRONG !
"Beast" is a title for both the man & his empire. The man will also be the penultimate antichrist. To deny this is to deny part of God's word.
Scripture gives the criteria this man must fulfill, and no one has yet filled them. While being evil is one of them, it's far from the only one. That's why I say Nero was not that man.
I came across this -
Lodic
Well-Known Member
I voted "No" for a couple of reasons. You equate "The Beast" with "the Antichrist". I don't believe in "the Antichrist". The popular view has "the Antichrist" as a combination of the Beast of the Sea, the Man of Sin, and possibly others. The Man of Sin was probably Titus, not Nero. I believe the Beast was 1st Century Rome, and largely personified by Nero (666).
Well, neither Nero nor Titus was the beast/ MOS. While "beast' refers to both the antichrist & his kingdom, it's plain no old Roman nor the Roman empire was either one.
While Nero didn't fulfill too many of the Scriptural criteria for the beast/MOS, Titus fulfilled even fewer. That automatically excludes them. And Rome didn't rule nearly all the world known to John at the time as the MOS & his empire will. While the Mediterranean was a Roman lake at that time, Rome did NOT rule the Germans, Parthians, Gauls, etc.
This Scripture makes it plain: Rev. 13:[color] 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/color]
This disqualifies the old Roman empire & the Holy Roman empire both. Some day, you'll learn not to believe the garbage of those pret quacks! I hope you don't learn it the hard way!
Lodic
Well-Known Member
Actually, there are several good reasons to believe that Rome / Nero fits the Beast. The 7 kings of Rev 17 were: 1. Julius Caesar; 2. Augustus; 3. Tiberius; 4. Caligula; 5. Claudius; 6. Nero; and 7. Galba, who only reigned a short while (6 months). Nero was emperor when John wrote Revelation. Then there is 666. It doesn't make sense that John's original 1st century audience could have calculated the Number of the Beast to be someone in their distant future. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense that John tells them to use wisdom to calculate the identity of the Beast as someone they would be familiar with. The whole political setting fits perfectly with the prophecies in Revelation and the Olivet Discourse. Nero did have authority to make war with the saints and to overcome them. This is not about a future "Antichrist" taking over the whole world, but about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
Sorry, Captain, but history and reality are against you. With SCRIPTURE as the standard governing all the other factors, being 100% correct, we see that history and reality haven't yet matched Scripture in eschatological events yet.
First, do you know the history of the city of Rome & the Roman empire? It existed long before Julius Caesar came along, having kings & Caesars long before Julius. Next, the Rev was given during the latter years of DOMITIAN'S reign, not Nero's. Nero simply killed those he didn't like, while Domitian exiled many to various nearby islands such as Patmos. (Patmos is not a "desert island". While ancients had to "hardscrabble" to survive there, but they managed.)
The 666 thing is no big deal. Many Roman names added up to 666, by various systems of geometrics. And, as Nero's name was well-known, it didn't take much wisdom to use the right system of geometrics to get 666 outta his name.
And there were many prophesied events that did NOT occur during Nero's reign, such as the mark of the beast, the beast from the earth, the great trib, the two beasts being cast alive into the LOF.
REMEMBER, THE BEAST WILL BE IN POWER WHEN JESUS RETURNS! As Jesus hasn't returned, something with which you agree, the beasts haven't yet come, either!
Your case still loses!
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