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Poll: Was Nero the "beast/antichrist"?
- Thread starter robycop3
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1689Dave
Well-Known Member
By having Christ interpret it for us in the NT.
It is happening right now.
TurnTheTide1611
New Member
Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
You believe the 1000 year reign is happening now. Do you believe the Lord is ruling the nations with a rod of iron right now?
Yes....men will give account for every idle word spoken.
He is ruling in the midst of his enemies;
Psalm 110 King James Version (KJV)
110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Jesus taught;
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, for so much as he also is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
I see that as the Kingdom grows, there is at first much opposition. The gospel continues to grow as a mustard seed.
mt13:
31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
TurnTheTide1611
New Member
Do you think this part of Psalms 110 happened yet?
Psalms 110:5-6
5: The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. 6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Nupe ! Aint happened yet, except in prets' imaginations.
In Hebrews2:8 it says we see not all things put under him yet.
Man is given dominion but it is ongoing under His rule.
Lk17:20-21
Luke 17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
Nothing to do with Jesus "reigning with the saints". That won't occur til He returns & reigns from Jerusalem during the millenium.
Nothing to do with Jesus "reigning with the saints". That won't occur til He returns & reigns from Jerusalem during the millenium.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
Sorry, Sir, but, as I told Iconoclast, this has nothing to do with "Jesus reigning with the saints".
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
It means the kingdom is already here. And as Christ's body, we are seated with him in heavenly Jerusalem above.
TurnTheTide1611
New Member
So doesn't it makes sense then, that the Lord is not yet ruling with a rod of iron? When he is ruing with the rod of iron, he will be "wounding the heads over many countries.) (Psalms 110) This is not happening yet.
Hebrews 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Currently, the kingdom of God is present in the believer's heart in seed form. (e.g. Matthew 13:3-23)
It's not going to stay as just a seed in our heart that we are to cultivate as we seek the kingdom of God. It will eventually physically manifest when the Lord returns bodily, and rules the nations with a rod of iron.
Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
When Jesus did miracles, he was manifesting the power that will be fully manifest when he comes again to establish his kingdom. That's not currently in effect:
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Right now, the Lord's kingdom is not from hence. But it will be. The faithful believer occupies in a spiritual manner right now. We are not physically seated with God in heavenly places.
But when the Lord comes back bodily, the faithful believer will be ruling with him in a physical manner.
The vast majority of the kingdom passages are discussing the literal physical reign. All scriptures need to harmonize. We can't just point to Luke 17 or Luke 11 and try to make them an interpretive key that overthrows the rest of scripture, any more than we can, for example, turn to John 6:29 and use it to "prove" belief is a work and therefore assert John 3:16 means we are saved by works.
Again all scripture needs to harmonize.
ChurchofChristguy
Member
Certainly he was AN anti-Christ. I do believe that most of Revelation is directed toward Nero and the coming destruction of Jerusalem. I am one of these who thinks that the vast majority of Revelation has already occurred, except for the last part when Jesus says "Behold I am coming soon!"
But there are many anti-Christs running around our planet. Some of them might be sitting in church with you.
TurnTheTide1611,
Explain to me your idea of ruling with a rod of Iron???
Is there no sin in your idea of the kingdom? If a person sins, do angels appear and smite them?
The "kingdom would not last for more than a few hours.
What do you mean, in seed form?
What does this passage mean?
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
What Kingdom is this that we received in verse28?
Where does it say in Rev. 20 that the kingdom reign is with Jesus on earth?
Jesus said the Kingdom had come upon THEM..He did not say these were signs of what will happen in a future kingdom, He said the Kingdom had come upon them.
You have devils in your future Kingdom??? What verse says there will be devils in a future millenium?
His Kingdom Authority was from heaven, not an earthly physical political Kingdom
I was originally taught these things, where does rev 20 say Jesus rules and reigns ON EARTH?
Isaiah 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Notice this passage says this will happen in the last days, we are in the last days since the cross. Hebrews 12 says the Lord speaks from heaven.now, we receiving a Kingdom now...
Explain to me your idea of ruling with a rod of Iron???
Is there no sin in your idea of the kingdom? If a person sins, do angels appear and smite them?
The "kingdom would not last for more than a few hours.
What do you mean, in seed form?
What does this passage mean?
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
What Kingdom is this that we received in verse28?
Where does it say in Rev. 20 that the kingdom reign is with Jesus on earth?
Jesus said the Kingdom had come upon THEM..He did not say these were signs of what will happen in a future kingdom, He said the Kingdom had come upon them.
You have devils in your future Kingdom??? What verse says there will be devils in a future millenium?
His Kingdom Authority was from heaven, not an earthly physical political Kingdom
I was originally taught these things, where does rev 20 say Jesus rules and reigns ON EARTH?
Yes, it is on earth now, physically. Jesus is on the throne in the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem
Isaiah 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Notice this passage says this will happen in the last days, we are in the last days since the cross. Hebrews 12 says the Lord speaks from heaven.now, we receiving a Kingdom now...
Mine do.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Please note the kingdom is not physical;
“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)
“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)
“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)
“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)
“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)
“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
That doesn't make sense! We're still right here on earth !
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,” (Ephesians 2:5–6)
“For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.” (Ephesians 5:30–31)
No, it's directed toward a future world ruler and future events.
"Antichrists" began when Jesus began His ministry. Some of His own brothers were such for awhile. But there will be ONE penultimate antichrist who will be a world dictator, who will commit the "abomination of desolation", issue the mark of the beast, etc. have a sidekick false prophet who will work miracles in his boss' presence by Satanic power; both will be so evil they'll be cast alive directly into gehenna, with no other judgment necessary, as their evil will be so great & obvious.
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