Pope Benedict to Resign at End of Month

[Bronconagurski]

Read the Council of Trent. Its decrees have never been rescinded, many of them dealing with justification. To say that one is saved by grace through faith and not of works is to be accursed according to the RCC.

That nails it right there for me. No way I could convert.

 

[go2church]

I think it's important to remember there is a difference between what the official church doctrine/ position is and what the people in the pew actually believe. People are not just robots of the church that believe blindly whatever the Pope says. Check the groups within the Roman Catholic church fighting for change at the highest levels. Women as priests, priests and nuns allowed to marry, right to life positions, even trying to change the churches position on sexuality.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these positions, just that there needs to be an understanding that there is much wider range of opinion from those who call themselves Roman Catholic. Therefore, stating and restating what the official position does not mean that is what everyone believes and it would be foolish to dump all people into the "can't be real christians" box just because the church has a stated position on something.

 

[Zaac]

I think it's important to remember there is a difference between what the official church doctrine/ position is and what the people in the pew actually believe. People are not just robots of the church that believe blindly whatever the Pope says. Check the groups within the Roman Catholic church fighting for change at the highest levels. Women as priests, priests and nuns allowed to marry, right to life positions, even trying to change the churches position on sexuality.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these positions, just that there needs to be an understanding that there is much wider range of opinion from those who call themselves Roman Catholic. Therefore, stating and restating what the official position does not mean that is what everyone believes and it would be foolish to dump all people into the "can't be real christians" box just because the church has a stated position on something.

Interesting go2church. I think your comment should lead us to the question of if they are not believing the "truth" preached by the priests as sent down from the Vatican, what are they basing their beliefs upon? Their opinions?or what?

Because if they don't believe what the Church says is the truth to be the truth, then why remain a part of it?

 

[12strings]

Interesting go2church. I think your comment should lead us to the question of if they are not believing the "truth" preached by the priests as sent down from the Vatican, what are they basing their beliefs upon? Their opinions?or what?

Because if they don't believe what the Church says is the truth to be the truth, then why remain a part of it?

I can answer this a bit...though not from a RCC perspective.

We have had several people come to attend and join our (SBC) Church recently from a mainline methodist church that has gradually ceased teaching the gospel. They come because they can no longer agree. One of those people told me that there are a few older people still there who agree with the problem, but because of loyalty to the church and the people at the church, have decided to stay and hope, and/or work for, a turn-around.

Now, if myself and our current senior pastor started preaching this weekend that Jesus loves everyone and that all will be saved regardless of their beliefs, and that no one really need to turn away from any sin they might be involved in, or turn to Jesus...Some people would leave, for very good and godly reasons...some would stay, because they agreed with us (wrongly), and i suspect some others would stay because they are so invested in the church after having spent their lives here, that their loyalty to the church and the fellow members would compel them to stay (also a good, godly reason). They would stay, knowing we were teaching wrong ideas, but hoping we would come around, or that the next pastor would be more biblical.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Agreed..

I think it's important to remember there is a difference between what the official church doctrine/ position is and what the people in the pew actually believe. People are not just robots of the church that believe blindly whatever the Pope says. Check the groups within the Roman Catholic church fighting for change at the highest levels. Women as priests, priests and nuns allowed to marry, right to life positions, even trying to change the churches position on sexuality.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with these positions, just that there needs to be an understanding that there is much wider range of opinion from those who call themselves Roman Catholic. Therefore, stating and restating what the official position does not mean that is what everyone believes and it would be foolish to dump all people into the "can't be real christians" box just because the church has a stated position on something.

Agreed G2C....The substance of what you just said is that there are "good" Catholics AND "bad" Catholics....just as we all know that there are "good" Baptists and "bad" Baptists!
I don't think we should try to evaluate Catholicism on the basis of the wide range of beliefs or opinions of those in the "pew" because that can fluctuate wildly. Our (BIBLICAL)evaluation for the sake of identifying truth or error must be directed at the core values and teachings of the "church" as an institution. It is on THAT basis that I and many others reject Catholicism as a "religious" system. We don't reject the dear souls that make up the "pew". We must be compassionate and do all we can to try and rescue them from the snare they are caught in. In what you just said, there may actually snares within snares....(ie. homosexuals WITHIN the Catholic church that are fighting for official sanction,etc.,etc.,...they have more than just ONE snare to contend with)...I think you get the picture.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[go2church]

I wouldn't disagree with the heart of what you're saying, I guess what I'm advocating for is a willingness to toss away the knee jerk reaction that many Baptists have to Catholic's in general.

The discussion leads to the question, "Do you stay in the fray to bring about change or do you leave because there is no change?"

The history of Baptists is to, in general, leave, separatist roots run deep in our tradition. I fully respect those who genuinely feel called to stay and try and bring about change from within, though I imagine it to be a frustrating situation.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

I can answer this a bit...though not from a RCC perspective.

We have had several people come to attend and join our (SBC) Church recently from a mainline methodist church that has gradually ceased teaching the gospel. They come because they can no longer agree. One of those people told me that there are a few older people still there who agree with the problem, but because of loyalty to the church and the people at the church, have decided to stay and hope, and/or work for, a turn-around.

Now, if myself and our current senior pastor started preaching this weekend that Jesus loves everyone and that all will be saved regardless of their beliefs, and that no one really need to turn away from any sin they might be involved in, or turn to Jesus...Some people would leave, for very good and godly reasons...some would stay, because they agreed with us (wrongly), and i suspect some others would stay because they are so invested in the church after having spent their lives here, that their loyalty to the church and the fellow members would compel them to stay (also a good, godly reason). They would stay, knowing we were teaching wrong ideas, but hoping we would come around, or that the next pastor would be more biblical.

I'm not trying to start a fight but obviously, if you believe what you just said is right (OK) then I can deduce that you are NOT a Biblical "seperatist". Biblical separatism is not discussed much these days on the BB. At what point does the admonition in 2 Cor.6:17 come into play...and for what reasons. If anyone STAYS ON in a church that has departed from teaching the truth, are they not elevating whatever or whomever is the reason they are staying ABOVE putting God first and is THAT (or whomever) not a form of idolatry? Just something to think about. ANYTIME a person or a church departs from teaching or believing the truths of Scripture to following after or teaching the ideas of man he/she has made something other than God his/her IDOL. Repentance and/or separation are the only available "right" options. I know this sounds narrow...but so be it.

Bro.Greg:saint: