saturneptune
New Member
Give one example of where you have correctly used Scripture.
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power to tread on serpents...
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Do you have a comment on this OP?
saturneptune
New Member
Yes, I have a comment. I am tired of you and your false doctrine, magic act buddies trashing this board with anti-Christian garbage.
Where have I shared un Christian garbage? Are you saying I am not a christian because I do not believe as you do? I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior!
Look, if it had another meaning, other translations would reflect that meaning. But not even translations close to being paraphrases like the CEV reflect such an interpretation as yours. That is a good indication that you are wrong.
(ASV) they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(CEV) They will handle snakes and will drink poison and not be hurt. They will also heal sick people by placing their hands on them.
I do. And as I pointed out if we allow Scripture to interpret scripture according to your methodology then we end up equating Christ to the Pharisees. That is not good hermeneutics. It is blasphemous.
Good grief! Tell me you have more sense than that!
Jesus brass serpent represented sin judged! brass speaks of the divine judgment!
But what did the looking upon the brass serpent do for those that were BITTEN by SERPENTS? What did the serpents represent to the ones that were bitten? Sin? poison venom from the snakes? How did they over come the serpents sting?
Let's go through this again.
It is your logic/interpretation.
Mark 16:18 You shall pick up serpents.
Since, in Matthew 23, Jesus called the Pharisees, "serpents" you come to the conclusion that: "serpents" = "Pharisees."
However in the book of numbers there was a plague of serpents, a judgment of God. Many were bitten; many died. To be healed of this plague the Israelites had to look in faith to a bronze serpent fashioned on a staff. Look to the serpent and you shall be healed/saved.
Look to Christ, in faith, and you shall be healed (spiritually)/saved.
The serpent represents Christ.
As one looks to the serpent of the OT they were saved or healed physically.
As one looks to Christ of the NT one is saved or healed spiritually.
Therefore Christ is the serpent.
Now you have called Christ a serpent; Christ a Pharisee!
Any other blasphemous thing you would like to add to this list by your methodology of allegorical interpretation.
This you haven't even looked at objectively, not even using the allegorical method.
The serpents were sent by God. They were God's judgment. God sent them because the Israelites were complaining and murmuring against Moses.
Again, Christ said to his disciples that they would pick up serpents and the serpents would not harm them.
So what is the application here?
According to you it is:
They would deal with the judgment of God and even the judgment of God will not harm them!! How ridiculous an interpretation is this? The serpents were the judgement of God sent by God! You are saying that God is going to send serpents (judgments) upon his own disciples so that He will be able to protect them from those same judgments that he sends. How ridiculous!!!
It is much easier to take the passage literally as it is meant to be taken.
"And they shall take up serpents and they shall not be harmed; and they shall drink poisonous substances and not be harmed."
BTW, have you taken your Draino yet?
I wonder why or why not?
plain_n_simple
Active Member
It is simply a deeper level of unbelief. Jesus said true believers would do these things.
No! He said even greater things they will do, and that was the Gospel being spread throughout the earth, taking good news to all nations and peoples!
Do you know ANY who have walked on water, raised a man dead 4 days as he did? There ARE no greater works in that regrad, but a greater One in ability to reach many more people now than he could in his time!
And true believers, such as a Calvin/Spurgeon/Wesley/Luther etc did NOT do those things that you claim they would all do, were these not saved?
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
This may be profound but.... I understand that... the serpents and scorpions in this chapter stand for.... wait for it.... wait for it..... serpents and scorpions. The first thing that comes to mind is Paul on Malta. However, I wouldn't be opposed to an interpretation that holds anything that rears itself up against us and the spread of the gospel. Even demonic Powers.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
It's not a question of being saved. Were they equipped with power? If no signs followed, no. This is where you also are lacking by not being baptized in the Holy Ghost.
First mention of serpents in the Bible is demonic!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
As I recall a serpent was mentioned for healing like the one Moses held up. Also didn't Moses' snake eat Pharaoh's wizards snakes? You can't based a theology on coincidences.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Every believer has been baptized in the Holy Ghost. What you are promoting is a false gospel.
I explained the Brass serpent in a previous post! THe serpent represented our sin that Jesus took on the cross of judgement (brass). He was judge for our sins!
If you do a word search on the word serpent you will find that the serpent that Moses staff turned into was a "Tanniyn" instead of "Nachesh"....so is there a difference?
Keep in mind that the OT is a picture of a spiritual reality in the NT.
Acts 8 they were believers and baptized but did not manifest the Holy Spirit until the apostles laid hands upon them and they received the Holy Spirit.
So those BELIEVERS that were baptized did not have the Holy Spirit with manifestation.
Acts 19 were believers and were baptized by John! But they did not manifest the Holy Spirit until Paul laid his hand upon them and the Holy Ghost came UPON them...he did not say within them!
In essence you are simply denying the words of Jesus.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
There is a direct connection to looking up at the serpent in faith and receiving salvation to looking up at Christ by faith and receiving salvation. Christ said that, not I. You can read the Bible, the above verse for yourself.
The serpent does not represent our sin; it represents Christ. That is who Christ himself identified himself with. He himself could not have made it any plainer.
Do you understand what the Scripture is saying here awaken?