power to tread on serpents...

[awaken]

In essence you are simply denying the words of Jesus.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

There is a direct connection to looking up at the serpent in faith and receiving salvation to looking up at Christ by faith and receiving salvation. Christ said that, not I. You can read the Bible, the above verse for yourself.

The serpent does not represent our sin; it represents Christ. That is who Christ himself identified himself with. He himself could not have made it any plainer.
Do you understand what the Scripture is saying here awaken?

It represents Christ taking on the sins of the World!

 

[DHK]

It represents Christ taking on the sins of the World!

Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world.
The serpent represented the same thing.
The lamb and the serpent both represented the same thing.

Now we have the serpent representing the Pharisees, judgment, Christ, literal serpents, and what else awaken? Just how many meanings are you going to fit into that passage?
They shall pick up Christ, and Christ shall not harm them.
Yep, sounds like a great interpretation, using your methods.

 

[awaken]

Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world.
The serpent represented the same thing.
The lamb and the serpent both represented the same thing.

Now we have the serpent representing the Pharisees, judgment, Christ, literal serpents, and what else awaken? Just how many meanings are you going to fit into that passage?
They shall pick up Christ, and Christ shall not harm them.
Yep, sounds like a great interpretation, using your methods.

The snake represents the sins of the World! Brass represents Judgement! Quit twisting it!
Christ took on our sins! We are to trust in what he did on the cross for us! He took our sins away! Sin is NEVER good!

 

[DHK]

The snake represents the sins of the World! Brass represents Judgement! Quit twisting it!
Christ took on our sins! We are to trust in what he did on the cross for us! He took our sins away! Sin is NEVER good!

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So you deny Christ's own interpretation of the verse?
That is truly shameful!

 

[awaken]

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So you deny Christ's own interpretation of the verse?
That is truly shameful!

No! just your interpretation!
It says he will be lifted up! He did not say He was the serpent!
It says we should believe on Him, not serpents! Why? Because serpents represent sin that Christ took on our behalf! It is not Christ himself!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Acts 8 they were believers and baptized but did not manifest the Holy Spirit until the apostles laid hands upon them and they received the Holy Spirit.
So those BELIEVERS that were baptized did not have the Holy Spirit with manifestation.
Acts 19 were believers and were baptized by John! But they did not manifest the Holy Spirit until Paul laid his hand upon them and the Holy Ghost came UPON them...he did not say within them!

This has been explained to you multiple times. You are either willfully ignorant or have a comprehension problem. Or you are blinded by false Charismatic doctrine.

 

[Yeshua1]

It's not a question of being saved. Were they equipped with power? If no signs followed, no. This is where you also are lacking by not being baptized in the Holy Ghost.

the POWER is NOT the Force of star wars, that you can command and manipulate by words of faith/confession, it is the Person of the Holy Spirit!

And His power is as paul described, in the preaching/proclamation of jesus! the "power" was unleased by the HS in and thru preaching of jesus to save 3000 in one meeting, you ever do that in one session?

 

[Yeshua1]

This has been explained to you multiple times. You are either willfully ignorant or have a comprehension problem. Or you are blinded by false Charismatic doctrine.

And it happened that while tApollos was at Corinth, Paul passed uthrough the inland1 country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, v“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, wwe have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, x“Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into yJohn's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, y“John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people zto believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, athey were baptized in2 the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And bwhen Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and cthey began speaking in tongues and dprophesying. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

they were disciples of John, and heard there was a coming messiah, but did not know who he was!

Does that sound like saved persons?

 

[awaken]

This has been explained to you multiple times. You are either willfully ignorant or have a comprehension problem. Or you are blinded by false Charismatic doctrine.

Again! Just because someone does not believe your interpretation does not mean they are ignorant or have a comprehension problem!

 

[awaken]

And it happened that while tApollos was at Corinth, Paul passed uthrough the inland1 country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. 2 And he said to them, v“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, wwe have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, x“Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into yJohn's baptism.” 4 And Paul said, y“John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people zto believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, athey were baptized in2 the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And bwhen Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and cthey began speaking in tongues and dprophesying. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

they were disciples of John, and heard there was a coming messiah, but did not know who he was!

Does that sound like saved persons?

They had repented of there sins and believed on Christ! They were as saved as the disciples were! The disciples had only been baptized in the baptism of John! No other water baptism! Baptism of the HOly Spirit was after Johns baptism. That is what they were missing!

 

[Yeshua1]

They had repented of there sins and believed on Christ! They were as saved as the disciples were! The disciples had only been baptized in the baptism of John! No other water baptism! Baptism of the HOly Spirit was after Johns baptism. That is what they were missing!

they were believers in John, Paul had to tell them that the promised one had really come, they heard on jesus, saved by God, and experienced same as the Apsotles, to confirm that were really saved! Tongues were a sign to Jesws they were of jesus, but ceased away, as we do not need them any more!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Again! Just because someone does not believe your interpretation does not mean they are ignorant or have a comprehension problem!

It is not my interpretation, dear.

 

[DHK]

No! just your interpretation!
It says he will be lifted up! He did not say He was the serpent!
It says we should believe on Him, not serpents! Why? Because serpents represent sin that Christ took on our behalf! It is not Christ himself!

OK, let's go through your interpretation, logically.
The serpent = sin (you say)
Sin is therefore lifted up.
They look in faith to sin.
It is sin that saves. That is what you teach? Go wallow in your sin!!

No, the serpent represents Christ.
By looking to the serpent in faith they were healed, physically.
By looking to Christ in faith we are healed spiritually.

It is Christ himself that taught this. Why do you deny the teaching of Christ?
There is only one reason you do this.
That is because you want to force an allegorical meaning that doesn't fit Mark 16:18 either. You figure if you can misinterpret Scripture here you are justified doing it there as well. But carry on. Soon you will be denying salvation. You are very close to denying it right now.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

They had repented of there sins and believed on Christ! They were as saved as the disciples were! The disciples had only been baptized in the baptism of John! No other water baptism! Baptism of the HOly Spirit was after Johns baptism. That is what they were missing!

That is absolutely false. Again your comprehension problem. As has been explained to you numerous times, they were clearly NOT Christian disciples. The text plainly shows and says that.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So you deny Christ's own interpretation of the verse?
That is truly shameful!

I know this may sound odd to you Awaken, however, I have to agree with DHK. I think Jesus is pretty clear in his comparison of the two events. Just as the serpent was raised up and looked upon for salvation even so "must the Son of Man be lifted up".

 

[awaken]

OK, let's go through your interpretation, logically.
The serpent = sin (you say)
Sin is therefore lifted up.
They look in faith to sin.
It is sin that saves. That is what you teach? Go wallow in your sin!!

No, the serpent represents Christ.
By looking to the serpent in faith they were healed, physically.
By looking to Christ in faith we are healed spiritually.

It is Christ himself that taught this. Why do you deny the teaching of Christ?
There is only one reason you do this.
That is because you want to force an allegorical meaning that doesn't fit Mark 16:18 either. You figure if you can misinterpret Scripture here you are justified doing it there as well. But carry on. Soon you will be denying salvation. You are very close to denying it right now.

You added your twist again! I said the serpent on the pole represented our sin judged! Our sins were placed on Jesus! He paid the price for our sin!
We look to what Jesus did on the cross for salvation! He took/judged our sins!

 

[awaken]

I know this may sound odd to you Awaken, however, I have to agree with DHK. I think Jesus is pretty clear in his comparison of the two events. Just as the serpent was raised up and looked upon for salvation even so "must the Son of Man be lifted up".

Yes! He was lifted up! But he was lifted up with our sins judged on the cross!

 

[awaken]

That is absolutely false. Again your comprehension problem. As has been explained to you numerous times, they were clearly NOT Christian disciples. The text plainly shows and says that.

Well, this discussion is about the power to tread over serpents!
We disagree on that scripture! I do not have a comprehension problem! I have a problem with your interpretation of that scripture!

 

[DHK]

Well, this discussion is about the power to tread over serpents!
We disagree on that scripture! I do not have a comprehension problem! I have a problem with your interpretation of that scripture!

Luke 10
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt (5661) you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Context is king. You can't ignore it forever and all the time as you always seem to do.
Here is context:
Luke 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.

They were sent out as lambs among wolves.
They were sent out barefoot without shoes.
They were to expect not only persecution, but also hardship from the elements of nature.
But they were not to worry, for God Himself would give them protection; such protection that they would be able to tread on serpents and scorpions, and such power as to have power to defeat enemies that would confront them. He promised the protection. Nothing would hurt them.

You see how simple it is to interpret Scripture when you just take the context and read it literally as it should be taken?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Well, this discussion is about the power to tread over serpents!
We disagree on that scripture! I do not have a comprehension problem! I have a problem with your interpretation of that scripture!

Again, it is not my interpretation. The passage makes clear that they were not Christian believers yet, they were merely John's disciples. The verses plainly say that. So, if you can't see that, what conclusion must one draw?