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Pre-Mil Fallacy

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1689Dave

1689Dave

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Dave G said:
Worse than the plagues of Egypt?
I don't recall seeing anything in the history books even approaching a cataclysm of that magnitude ever happening since Christ ascended to heaven.

If you find it, please let me know where to look.
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Jesus said so. Have you ever studied the topic?
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Jesus says only the born-again can see the kingdom since he first preached it.
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It does not rule out both a spiritual kingdom ( united by the Spirit ) and a coming physical one, my friend.
1689Dave said:
But you reject the gospel of the kingdom and side with the Pharisee's Pre-millennial kingdom.
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I reject a-millennialism because I do not see the prophecies in Isaiah, Revelation and other places supporting it.

We will have to agree to disagree.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
It does not rule out both a spiritual kingdom ( united by the Spirit ) and a coming physical one, my friend.
We will have to agree to disagree.

I reject a-millennialism because I do not see the prophecies in Isaiah, Revelation and other places supporting it.
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Are you going to sacrifice animals in the supposed third temple? = unforgivable sin according to Hebrews 6.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
You just said it happened in 70AD. Why is he writing about a future event if that event has already started/happened. That doesn't fit.
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Revelation covers the entire New Covenant and beyond. If you are a futurist, the Pope has you right where he wants you.
 
timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
when the interpretation you prefer contradicts the straight forward maxims of the gospels and epistles, then it's invalid.
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There is no contradiction. You did not give one. Christ was on earth the first time physically. He will be on earth physically the next time. The Millennium has nothing to do with current temporal conditions based on sin. The Millennium is the spiritual and physical being one and restored. Paradise is not "restored" until after the 1000 years and as a totally different reality called the New Jerusalem. By restored, actually replacing the current Jerusalem, geographically. Paradise is not brought down. It can be seen though. The whole earth will see God on the throne at the 6th Seal. Paradise is part of seeing the throne.
 
S

Scripture More Accurately

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1689Dave said:
Jesus taught the Spiritual Kingdom only. You reject his Kingdom when you side with the Pharisee's Pre-Millennial Kingdom
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No, Jesus did not teach the spiritual kingdom only. Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus said,

Matthew 26:29
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

He spoke here of a future drinking of the fruit of the vine with His disciples in His Father's kingdom, which requires a physical kingdom.
 
timtofly

timtofly

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
The Premillennial position is what the Pharisees taught and expected when Daniel said God would set up his forever kingdom in the time of the ancient Roman Empire. He did, but it is spiritual and only the born-again can see it. So the Pharisees, as many calling themselves Christians rejected the gospel of the kingdom. And still, wait for the Pharisee's Premillennial kingdom. My question is; how can anyone claim to follow Christ while siding with the wicked Pharisees in rejecting Christ's kingdom?
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The Pharisees knew that in 2000 years, there would be a third 1000 year period on earth?
 
robycop3

robycop3

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Saying the events occurred in 70 AD is mpreterism & is totally-false. The earth went right on in 71 AD same as it did in 65 AD.

Scripture says, in Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Just before that, Satan shall be banished to "the abyss" for that m1K years. And when the 1K years are up, God says this shall happen: Rev. 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

So we see Scripture DEFINITELY says the millenium will occur, and to say otherwise is simply denying God's word ! ! And we see there'll still be mortals on earth during that time, but the saints will be with Jesus in Jerusalem (the beloved city) and Jesus shall rule the world with a rod of iron(Rev. 2:27, 12:5, 19:15)

There's simply NO legitimate, nor truthful, denying the millenium shall come shortly after Jesus' return. nThose Scriptures make lies outta all the preterist claims that those events have already occurred, or that they're anything else besides what Scripture plainly says they are. I summarily reject any claims otherwise as they simply don't jive with Scripture.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
The gospel locked Satan away from me forever.....
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Is this true at this moment? Are you saying you cannot be deceived by Satan at this moment? I don't agree with that. Are you saying you can't be tempted at this moment? I don't agree with that. More importantly, Scripture doesn't agree with that. Jesus was tempted by Satan. Jesus prayed that we not be led into temptation but be delivered from the evil one.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Revelation covers the entire New Covenant and beyond. If you are a futurist, the Pope has you right where he wants you.
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You still have not shown any basis other than your bias. You also have not dealt with the fact that Satan is not and has not yet been bound. You have also not dealt with what happens after he has been loosed as those events definitely have not occured. Your viewpoint simply does not align with Scripture.
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
timtofly said:
Eve was not told by God not to eat. Only when Adam ate was sin started in the world. They were not sinners nor sinned until after Adam disobeyed God. Disobedience came first, and then sin.
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This is not biblical. God did not directly tell you to not kill but if you murdered someone would that be sin? Eve most certainly knew God's law. Paul also states that Eve sinned.
 
P

percho

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Aaron said:
My position is that the Millennium is representative of the New Testament of Christ manifest in the earth. It's the 'reign' of the church. We have the authority to go into all nations and teach them to obey our Lord, because the nations are His.
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Acts 15:8 and the heart-knowing God did bare them testimony, having given to them the Holy Spirit, even as also to us,

Is that speaking of what begin on Pentecost and continued until the time written, unto the nations (Gentiles)?

Is that the manner by which God was exercising verse 14? - Simeon did declare how at first God did look after to take out of the nations a people for His name.

Is that what is still going on in the world today? God taking out of the nations a people for his name, by giving them the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:23 And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body;

Are those the same people being spoken of in Acts 15 as God giving the Holy Spirit?

Now exactly when does this reign with him? 2 Tim 2:12 if we do endure together -- we shall also reign together; if we deny him, he also shall deny us; - Shall - vi Fut Act 1 Pl

What follows the taking out of the nations a people for his name in Acts 15?

16 After these things - After this taking out of the nations a people for his name?

16,17 I will turn back, and I will build again the tabernacle of David, that is fallen down, and its ruins I will build again, and will set it upright -- that the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the nations, upon whom My name hath been called, saith the Lord, who is doing all these things.

IMHO, That will be the Millennium kingdom.

Jesus will be ruling with those who have received the redemption of the body.
 
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