Predestinated = OSAS

Steaver - if I read you correctly you are objecting to scripture itself!!!

Notice that the "IF WE DENY HIM" part is the part Steaver refuses to quote - but then asserts that WE THE SAVED -- if we are truly truly really really "the saved" WILL NOT deny Him and it is pointless to suppose that we will!

Just as the argument above shows!! </font>[/QUOTE]You object that the very part of God's word that you intended to SUPRESS got restored in the quote for reference!!

How "instructive"!!

Notice that this point - just made - HIGHLIGHTS that flaw in your own argument!!

Instead of responding to the point - you simply further expose your flaw in that regard!!

What kind of strategy is that??

In Christ,

Bob

 

YOU said "God says so" and proceded to quote 2Tim 2 - selectively supressing part of the text of "what GOD says".

I simply took the "GOD says so" as license to INCLUDE what "GOD SAYS" in 2Tim 2:13 - at which point "you object".

Now since it has been pointed out that you consider what God says to be IMPOSSIBLE for the truly saved (in direct conflict with your earlier statements that it was possible) you are still up to bat - to actually "respond" to your own self-conflicted argument!

How "instructive".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Steaver said - this applies TO THE SAVED

2Tim 2:13 "IF WE DENY HIM HE WILL DENY US"

Then self-conflictedly Steaver employs true double-speak saying --

Still waiting for you to clean up your own mess Steaver.

In Christ,

Bob

 

So Steaver says CAN BE denied - God's Word says "WILL DENY".

Steaver says "WILL NEVER BE denied" Gods Word said "WILL Be Denied"

Steaver says we should not NOTICE or ASK about his own self-conflicted argument.

Bob notes "You claim that the truly saved CAN NOT actually deny Crhist nor that Christ ever WILL deny those who were SAVED and yet go on to deny Him"

To which Steaver -- objects at having his argument's flaw exposed.

I say - "there you go - your own conflicted statement in living color!"

In Christ,

Bob

 

Steve,

I feel that it is wrong to go around saying I am "saved". When Peter claimed he would not deny Christ, that was when he was placing confidence in himself and he fell and denied Jesus.

"I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which Ive committed to Him against that day" but I will not go around claiming I am among the "predestined to be saved" or "predestined to be lost" group.


Claudia

 

Steve,

Bob doesnt strike me as the dishonest type, are you sure that maybe you arent jut both misuderstanding each other? I mean, I dont know him at all but just from reading some of the stuff he has posted on here in the past, he seems like an upstanding kind of a guy.

....lots of times it is really easy to do that when you cant really talk face to face.

Think about that you had thought that I was trying to avoid answering your question all this time when in reality I wasnt even aware that you had asked me anything... so its very easy to misunderstand and then think the worst of somebody when the reality of it might be something completely different.


Claudia

 

Steve,

I didnt quite say that I wasnt sure I was "saved".

At every advance step in Christian experience our repentance will deepen. It is to those whom the Lord has forgiven, to those whom He acknowledges as His people, that He says, "Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight." Eze. 36:31. Again He says, "I will establish My covenant with thee, and thou shalt know that I am the Lord; that thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord God." Eze. 16:62, 63. Then our lips will not be opened in self-glorification. We shall know that our sufficiency is in Christ alone. We shall make the apostle's confession our own. "I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing." Rom. 7:18. "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." Gal. 6:14.

Peter's fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was saved, and step after step was taken in the downward path, until he could deny his Master. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God's word declares, "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried." Dan. 12:10. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. (James 1:12.)

Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves. They lose sight of their own weakness and their constant need of divine strength. They are unprepared for Satan's devices, and under temptation many, like Peter, fall into the very depths of sin. We are admonished, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall." 1 Cor. 10:12. Our only safety is in constant distrust of self, and dependence on Christ.

 

Steve,


Ive spent the last few weeks thinking I was going to die.

I have been doing a very large amount of self-inspection, asking God to reveal to me all my sins and weakness and in heart doing my best to put them away....

....and absolutely positively and only relying upon the merits of my crucified and risen Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Claiming the promises of God in regards to Him accepting me because of the sacrifice of Jesus for my sins.

So you have a misinderstanding about me. I know its hard to communicate on this message board but I realize as never before my absolute dependence upon Christ and have faith He has forgiven all my sins and that God has thrown my sins into the depths of the sea.

Yet at the same time I will not lose sight of my own weaknesses and my folly at trusting myself. I know any minute I can let go of Jesus Christ and fall into temptation and possibly turn away from Christ, maybe not even realizing I did that.

You see Steve, I dont distrust God, I distrust myself, which are two completely different things.


Claudia

 

Steve,

In my other posts I shouldve explained myself better to you, its no wonder you thought I was saying I didnt think I was saved.

sorry about that, my mistake..


Claudia

 

I dont understand how come sometimes when I am getting ready to post a message, those smiley faces icons to choose from are there, and the thing to make sentences bold or italics, etc... and then other times they arent there...


I was going to put the little guy waving at Steve, but it wasnt there...

 

ohhhh now I see, the difference is when you do the "Quick Reply" or the "Post Reply"

Hi Steve

 

Claudia,

There are a few points I would like to address..i just do not know how to start.

Lets go this way..

When does a person lose their salvation?


In Christ...James

 

quote:
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Steaver said
WE(the saved) can DENY JESUS and JESUS can DENY US...God says so... 2Ti 2:12 ... if we deny him, HE also WILL DENY us:

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Why not stop dancing around this. IF the statement above WERE your consistent position then we would not be having this conversation to start with.

The problem is your self-conflicted stance that claims that such an "IF" is impossible!! You reduce the warning of God down to "don't turn into an elephant at 6pm on Thursdays".

In Christ,

Bob