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Predestination: Meaning and Application
- Thread starter Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
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Grace and Peace Everyone,
I guess I'm being a little selfish here but could we just let the drama go and get to the business of using this topic to learn something about our faith?
This is one of the first times I've had the opportunity to dialogue with Calvinists and to get to know Calvinist Theology. I'd honestly like to make the most of it but I'm afraid all this personal drama is seriously weakening everyones interest in following along.
Is it too much to ask that we all just kinda drop it and let it be water under the bridge?
raying:
Thanks.
I guess I'm being a little selfish here but could we just let the drama go and get to the business of using this topic to learn something about our faith?
This is one of the first times I've had the opportunity to dialogue with Calvinists and to get to know Calvinist Theology. I'd honestly like to make the most of it but I'm afraid all this personal drama is seriously weakening everyones interest in following along.
Is it too much to ask that we all just kinda drop it and let it be water under the bridge?
raying: Thanks.
Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
New Member
bound said:Grace and Peace Everyone,
I guess I'm being a little selfish here but could we just let the drama go and get to the business of using this topic to learn something about our faith?
This is one of the first times I've had the opportunity to dialogue with Calvinists and to get to know Calvinist Theology. I'd honestly like to make the most of it but I'm afraid all this personal drama is seriously weakening everyones interest in following along.
Is it too much to ask that we all just kinda drop it and let it be water under the bridge?
Thanks.
Yes ma'am... :saint:
Jarthur001
Active Member
Its really very easy Bound. Calvinist are but robots.bound said:Grace and Peace Everyone,
I guess I'm being a little selfish here but could we just let the drama go and get to the business of using this topic to learn something about our faith?
This is one of the first times I've had the opportunity to dialogue with Calvinists and to get to know Calvinist Theology. I'd honestly like to make the most of it but I'm afraid all this personal drama is seriously weakening everyones interest in following along.
Is it too much to ask that we all just kinda drop it and let it be water under the bridge?
Thanks.
No...i would be more then happy to pick it back up "bound"..which BTW would be a good Calvinist ID. It was one of the better threads going on. I have been witing till this just plays out.
Reply to my post on "time", if you do not agree..and we will be rolling again. If you agree..welcome to Calvinisim....well not really.
Brother Bob
New Member
J.D. If its the red font that makes people think I am mad then I will stop using it. I simply try to make a point and the red font help do that. If feel if I don't draw your attention to what is the most important point I am making you will miss it. But in no way does the change in font color or size indicate that I am angry. It when someone calls me names or trys to talk above me that I don't like but can live with as long as they can take the responses.
One thing I hope you will remember J.D. One person can not argue. It always takes two. Seems as if and maybe because of the red font, but I end up as the causing agent of which I am not. Remember the next argument, it takes at least two. peace,
Jarthur001
Active Member
no big deal Bob...use any type you want. At least you don't have as many typos as me.Brother Bob said:
but...just for your information. To much changing of the colors is to hard to read. Being a GA...let me show you something. Power is less graphic. like this.....bang
Easy to read....and the message is clear.
OK...so does everyone now agree with Predestination as Calvinist see it? If so...I guess we are done.
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This clarifies reformed baptist view!
http://www.founders.org/library/reform.html
However, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by L. Boettner is more than excellent!!
That is only after reading A.W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God!
http://www.founders.org/library/reform.html
However, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by L. Boettner is more than excellent!!
That is only after reading A.W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God!
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I didn't intend to lay it all on you, and I'm sorry I implied it.
As far as calvinists taking up for each other, it's true. There does seem to be a strong sense of unity these days among Calvinists in standing for the truth of God's Absolute Sovereignty.
Besides that, you need to realize that this is a public forum. You should never expect to be having a private conversation here.
Jarthur001
Active Member
2BHizown said:
Which is a must read.
saturneptune
New Member
Pastor/ Theologian,
If you spent as much time spreading the Gospel as you do flapping your jaws, I dare say all of America would be at the alter.
If you spent as much time spreading the Gospel as you do flapping your jaws, I dare say all of America would be at the alter.
Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
New Member
Are ya'll feeling the love? I love you guys...:love2: Why? Because the Bible says I have to...:thumbs:
Jarthur001
Active Member
saturneptune said:
well...........here we go.
great timing dude. I'll check back later.
Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
New Member
Jarthur001 said:well...........here we go.
great timing dude. I'll check back later.
Notice I posted my love feast after his commitment. That dude loves me... He just has a funny way of showing it... It's all good brothers and sisters.
saturneptune
New Member
Jarthur001 said:well...........here we go.
great timing dude. I'll check back later.
Last time I heard that quote from you, you were leaving Baptist Board for good because the Islamic Arminians were planning a terrorist attack on you. Dont let the door hit you.
Brother Bob
New Member
I don't care if you stick up for the whole gang you just don't have to do it by name calling.
You say you hold up for the truth well that is what we are debating isn't it?
Brother Bob
New Member
Romans 10
"13": For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
"14": How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
"15": And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
"16": But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
"17": So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
"18": But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
"19": But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
"20": But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
"21": But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
So Paul goes from the saving of Jesus Christ in verse 13 all the way to "general Salvation" in verse 18. Now why would Apostle
Paul do that. He was giving a message and to throw in something out in left field is something in your mind and not Apostle
Paul’s. Everyone says to remember the context and so I did by quoting almost the whole Chapter of Romans 10 but you want
to throw out verse a18 but keep the rest. Sorry but that does not make sense even for a theologian.
You are wrong as you have been several times in this post and if it continues you will be proved wrong again apparently.
Page 10 BP/T
The nature of the freewill argument has been exposed and they have been painted into a proverbial corner and now they are
forced to either give up the system that put them in that corner or move forward the only logical way they can. It is no
coincidence that the freewillers here are becoming Inclusivist. Open Theism is the logical conclusion of free will theology. One
thing open theist share in common is type of pluralism or a thoroughgoing Inclusivism
Open Theism is the logical conclusion of free will theology.
Be very careful when you start trying to justify how individuals can be saved apart from the gospel.
BP/T
webdog
I have yet to see that in this discussion
(This is when you started)
Bob, I will just say that your interpretation of the Bible is very creative and smacks of desparation.... You're reaching pal!
(You continue but this is just debating so no problem)
Bob,
With all due respect you are twisting the Scripture.
Bob,
With all due respect you are twisting the Scripture
I responded with full quote of Romans 10 Chapter which included verse 18
Let me stay out of it and just post Apostle Paul then. Is this being twisted also for it is exactly what I said so if this is
twisted then I am guilty but if this is not twisted then I am falsely accused.
Roman: 10
"13": For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
"14": How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
"15": And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
"16": But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
"17": So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
"18":But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
"19": But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
"20": But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
"21": But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
( Here is your answer to Apostle Paul’s writhing of Romans 10)
Bob,
I have been reading your replies and your starting to prove yourself to be irrational. Therefore what can I say to you? You post
entire section of Scripture as if it makes some kind of point. You see in that passage what you want to see there. If you are
going so far as to suggest that the gospel is not necessary for salvation then I do not think there is much more to discuss
(Here you hit webdog also)
What I just said to Bob goes for you too...
(Of course this is to us also)
Hey we are all doing our part here to stand for biblical truth. Just because someone opens up the Book and proceeds to talk
about what is written does not make him a gospel preacher. Lord help us when we are having to argue that the gospel is
necessary for salvation
(Here is next response from you and remember the picture hasn’t been mentioned yet)
BP/T
In a civil society we commit insane people, we just take our time in getting out the nets. When it becomes obvious that you
are dealing with someone who is on the fringe, give them a chance to clear out the cobwebs before you get out the net. Now
with Bob, I am just about ready to get out the net
(This is next response)
Get the net...
(Here is the first talk you have about picture)
Somebody needs to take an anger management class, I mean look at that picture...
(Next quote about picture)
Bob,
Is that a picture of yourself? If so I can see how come you have had coronary issues. Dude, lighten up.... you look like you are about to explode yourself there pal.
So your explanation just don't hold water. The discussion was between Skandlon, Jauthor, webdog and myself along with a couple of others but not you and about Romans 10 also. about page 11 you jumped in and wasn't long until the trouble started.
Some say, I need to accept when I am mistaken about the Scriptures but never seen such twisting to try to get out of being the instigater for the trouble on this thread as BP/T just put up.
"13": For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
"14": How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
"15": And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
"16": But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
"17": So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
"18": But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
"19": But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
"20": But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
"21": But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
So Paul goes from the saving of Jesus Christ in verse 13 all the way to "general Salvation" in verse 18. Now why would Apostle
Paul do that. He was giving a message and to throw in something out in left field is something in your mind and not Apostle
Paul’s. Everyone says to remember the context and so I did by quoting almost the whole Chapter of Romans 10 but you want
to throw out verse a18 but keep the rest. Sorry but that does not make sense even for a theologian.
You are wrong as you have been several times in this post and if it continues you will be proved wrong again apparently.
Page 10 BP/T
The nature of the freewill argument has been exposed and they have been painted into a proverbial corner and now they are
forced to either give up the system that put them in that corner or move forward the only logical way they can. It is no
coincidence that the freewillers here are becoming Inclusivist. Open Theism is the logical conclusion of free will theology. One
thing open theist share in common is type of pluralism or a thoroughgoing Inclusivism
Open Theism is the logical conclusion of free will theology.
Be very careful when you start trying to justify how individuals can be saved apart from the gospel.
BP/T
webdog
I have yet to see that in this discussion
(This is when you started)
Bob, I will just say that your interpretation of the Bible is very creative and smacks of desparation.... You're reaching pal!
(You continue but this is just debating so no problem)
Bob,
With all due respect you are twisting the Scripture.
Bob,
With all due respect you are twisting the Scripture
I responded with full quote of Romans 10 Chapter which included verse 18
Let me stay out of it and just post Apostle Paul then. Is this being twisted also for it is exactly what I said so if this is
twisted then I am guilty but if this is not twisted then I am falsely accused.
Roman: 10
"13": For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
"14": How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
"15": And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
"16": But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
"17": So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
"18":But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
"19": But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
"20": But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
"21": But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
( Here is your answer to Apostle Paul’s writhing of Romans 10)
Bob,
I have been reading your replies and your starting to prove yourself to be irrational. Therefore what can I say to you? You post
entire section of Scripture as if it makes some kind of point. You see in that passage what you want to see there. If you are
going so far as to suggest that the gospel is not necessary for salvation then I do not think there is much more to discuss
(Here you hit webdog also)
What I just said to Bob goes for you too...
(Of course this is to us also)
Hey we are all doing our part here to stand for biblical truth. Just because someone opens up the Book and proceeds to talk
about what is written does not make him a gospel preacher. Lord help us when we are having to argue that the gospel is
necessary for salvation
(Here is next response from you and remember the picture hasn’t been mentioned yet)
BP/T
In a civil society we commit insane people, we just take our time in getting out the nets. When it becomes obvious that you
are dealing with someone who is on the fringe, give them a chance to clear out the cobwebs before you get out the net. Now
with Bob, I am just about ready to get out the net
(This is next response)
Get the net...
(Here is the first talk you have about picture)
Somebody needs to take an anger management class, I mean look at that picture...
(Next quote about picture)
Bob,
Is that a picture of yourself? If so I can see how come you have had coronary issues. Dude, lighten up.... you look like you are about to explode yourself there pal.
So your explanation just don't hold water. The discussion was between Skandlon, Jauthor, webdog and myself along with a couple of others but not you and about Romans 10 also. about page 11 you jumped in and wasn't long until the trouble started.
Some say, I need to accept when I am mistaken about the Scriptures but never seen such twisting to try to get out of being the instigater for the trouble on this thread as BP/T just put up.
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Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
New Member
Blammo said:
Come on, now that is good stuff there... I don't care what you say!
Now in the context of a discussion on Predestination, not to mention the truth of what the Bible teaches, that was brilliant... With the flick of your proverbial pen you not only opened up my mouth with laughter but you then turned the pen into a sword and exposed the error in my tongue and check humor. Wow! Now that is talent. Funny and profound... You do not get that too often...:applause:
Of course I love you because God made to love... If it were not for his work in my life I would not even know what true love was nor could I hope to express true love.
This is going down in the hall of fame for the biggest love feast in Baptist Board history...
Baptist_Pastor/Theologian
New Member
Brother Bob said:
Bob,
I am not going to let you off this time. Have you read Psalms 19 lately? Let me post the first 6 verses:
19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
2 Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard.
4 Their measuring line goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
In them he has set a tent for the sun,
5 which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
6 Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat.
This passage is arguing for the notion of general revelation. General revelation is enough to convict the heart of every man so that each man is without excuse for not being willing to serve God or for breaking the commands of God or for not believing in God.
I have not thrown out vs 18 of Romans chapter 10, I have given it a proper context. In its proper context Romans 10 vs. 18 which is a direct quote of Ps. 19:4 teaches that all men stand condemned under the general revelation of God, hence the need for the previous verses which describe the need to believe in Jesus in order that you may be saved.
I have responded your thoughts on vs 18 now and just before. That verse in no way supports the notion that someone can be saved apart from the presentation of the gospel.
Now Bob you can keep posting past posts of mine or whomever you may wish but I am not going to sling mud. I will try though to deal with the substance of your concerns as you present them in a way that I am able to understand the substance of what it is that concerns you...
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