Predestination

[Yeshua1]

In Gods kingly sovereign freedom He freely chose to save all those that believe. This is How God chose to save people . We dont tell God how He has to save people .

None of us can freely choose Him , as we all have sin natures now!

 

[Barry Johnson]

None of us can freely choose Him , as we all have sin natures now!

Nothing in the bible says that because we are sinners we lost the ability to respond positively to the Gospel .

 

[tyndale1946]

We have to hear the Gospel yes .

I have a Deaf son and he is a saved individual in Christ, you want to run that by me again?... And don't tell me those kind of people are special cases... All sinners are special cases and he was saved just like I was saved by no interference by man... Salvation is 100% Christ!... Or did you birth yourself?... Brother Glen

Changed your own heart too... Didn't you?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Saving faith itself is a gift from God towards us, so how can we get credit for something God Himself has done?

Because we dont regenerate ourselves
. However its given on the basis of a condition. This Condition is something God gave as a condition so it's not about a philosophy its about what God has done and said ..Its about the Authority of God . We dont start with a philosophy and work that into the bible. If God says believing is not a work , believe that . if it pleases God by the foolishness of the preaching to save them that BELIEVE , believe that

 

[Sai]

Chapter and verse please?

John 20:29. Believe.

 

[Barry Johnson]

I have a Deaf son and he is a saved individual in Christ, you want to run that by me again?... And don't tell me those kind of people are special cases... All sinners are special cases and he was saved just like I was saved by no interference by man... Salvation is 100% Christ!... Or did you birth yourself?... Brother Glen

Changed your own heart too... Didn't you?

Ok your straining the gnat there . I'm quoting the bible. How can they hear without a preacher ect ..but we dont rule out other means . the Point is it's the Gospel heard , understood and believed that is the power of God unto salvation.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Ok your straining the gnat there . I'm quoting the bible. How can they hear without a preacher ect ..but we dont rule out other means . the Point is it's the Gospel heard , understood and believed that is the power of God unto salvation.

I've literally explained the Gosepl to a deaf person ( I dont know sign language ) but I drew the Gospel in pictures to her .

 

[Sai]

Ok your straining the gnat there . I'm quoting the bible. How can they hear without a preacher ect ..but we dont rule out other means . the Point is it's the Gospel heard , understood and believed that is the power of God unto salvation.

Barry, limited atonement is an error. Election is a biblical doctrine. But the elect are unsaved until they believe.

 

[Barry Johnson]

By faith and not by sight . Yes today we dont see Jesus . They were ' drawn ' by the Father and they physically saw Jesus . which is silly to use John 6 .44 ect for today because we dont physically come to Jesus . We come by faith , Believing the Gospel to be saved . That's the condition God gave after the cross .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Barry, limited atonement is an error. Election is a biblical doctrine. But the elect are unsaved until they believe.

There is no such thing as Election to salvation. The only preexisting Elect is Jesus . That's it . Election is to service . to serve. notice its always related to service . To something. to do something. Of course this is commonly related to a saved person, because obviously they are the ones doing for God . To serve .

 

[Barry Johnson]

There is no such thing as Election to salvation. The only preexisting Elect is Jesus . That's it . Election is to service . to serve. notice its always related to service . To something. to do something. Of course this is commonly related to a saved person, because obviously they are the ones doing for God . To serve .

Notice the point here .
“For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.”

 

[Iconoclast]

Sai,

limited atonement is an error.

No.it is true.
Everyone limits the atonement.

 

[Sai]

There is no such thing as Election to salvation. The only preexisting Elect is Jesus . That's it . Election is to service . to serve. notice its always related to service . To something. to do something. Of course this is commonly related to a saved person, because obviously they are the ones doing for God . To serve .

Thanks for being my narcissistic supply Barry. You’re a trooper buddy.

 

[Sai]

Sai,



No.it is true.
Everyone limits the atonement.

What I was told is that limited atonement makes more logical sense however, because my teachers were strict literalists they refused to try and make sense out of it leaving the antinomy as is.

 

[Van]

Saving faith itself is a gift from God towards us, so how can we get credit for something God Himself has done?

You simply deny Romans 4:4-5, Romans 4:23-24.

 

[Dave G]

For sure before the cross the diciples were drawn by the father and chosen. including Judas .

And why was Judas lost?

" While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." ( John 17:12 )

 

[Dave G]

So before the cross by the Father drawing they could come , all the ones ( sheep )which heard of the Father could come . . All after the cross would be drawn ...him being the light of the world .

Where you get the idea that God works differently in salvation before and after the cross I do not know, Barry, but all His people are saved the same way...
By His grace.

Only those given to Christ by the Father will come to Him.
Only the foreknown will ever realize the benefits of the rest in Romans 8:28-30.

Only the foreknown will ever be predestinated conformed to the image of His Son, only the foreknown will be called, justified and glorified.

Salvation is limited to the foreknown by Scripture, and is not available to all men.
But only God knows who His elect are, and they are manifest to the world by their belief of the Gospel, by their faith that endures to the end and by their love for one another.

 

[Dave G]

But the Father is not drawing today nor is the Holy Spirit . unless you have a verse ? After the cross?

" And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:47 ).

" Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city." ( Acts of the Apostles 18:9-10 ).

 

[Dave G]

We are not ' given by the Father 'today . That was to those before the cross . that could come to Jesus . Could come . it doesnt mean they all came . it just means they could .

" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." ( John 6:37 ).

 

[Dave G]

Nothing in the bible says that because we are sinners we lost the ability to respond positively to the Gospel .

" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).

The lost ( them that perish ) think that the preaching of the cross is foolishness. Those that are saved do not.
The lost do not positively respond to the Gospel, and do not think that it is the power of God. Only the saved ( the whosoever believeth ) do.



" But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost, Barry.
Satan blinds them to the truth of it.

If anything, I think that that should be enough to establish man's unwillingness and inability to believe the Gospel and to depart from their hatred of Christ apart from the merciful power and grace of God.
It is to me.