"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

[Aaron]

Believe what you will.

I believe what is written, LOL.

 

[atpollard]

Yes God is sovereign and He has chosen to give man an actual will. Not the sudo free will of compatibilism.

Compatibilism, is the view that free will and determinism are compatible. It argues that even if all events are causally determined, we can still have free will and be morally responsible for our actions.

Now how one can call a determined action a free action is rather a large leap in logic.

God is sovereign and man has a free will which is biblical. God determining an action and calling it free is not.

Oh, I do read what you have posted but I do not have to agree with what you have posted.


Compatibilism (also known as soft determinism), is the belief that God's predetermination and meticulous providence is "compatible" with voluntary choice. In light of Scripture, human choices are believed to be exercised voluntarily but the desires and circumstances that bring about these choices about occur through divine determinism (see Acts 2:23 & 4:27-28). It should be noted that this position is no less deterministic than hard determinism - be clear that neither soft nor hard determinism believes man has a free will. Our choices are only our choices because they are voluntary, not coerced. We do not make choices contrary to our desires or natures. Compatibilism is directly contrary to libertarian free will. Therefore voluntary choice is not the freedom to choose otherwise, that is, without any influence, prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. Voluntary does mean, however, the ability to choose what we want or desire most. The former view is known as contrary choice, the latter free agency. (Note: compatibilism denies that the will is free to choose otherwise, that is, free from the bondage of the corruption nature,for the unregenerate, and denies that the will is free from God's eternal decreee.)


Christ dwells within us not for the purpose of sinking our being into His being, nor of substituting Himself for us as the agent in our activities; much less of seizing our wills and operating them for us in contradiction to our own immanent mind; but to operate directly upon us, to make us good, that our works, freely done by us, may under His continual leading, be good also.
B.B. Warfield
https://www.monergism DOT com/topics/free-will/compatibilism

Since you have trouble looking things up for yourself ...

Genesis 50:20 [ESV] As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Who exercised their Free Will throughout the Story of Joseph?
Whose IMMUTABLE plan was at work that their Free Will was 100% compatible with and advanced?
Who was "sovereign" and "omnipotent" throughout it all ... events unfolding "according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will" [Ephesians 1:11]

That is REAL COMPATIBALISM ... the COMPATIBALISM of the Bible rather than some theology you feel like quoting and insisting that I believe.

[Go ahead, ignore the scripture I post and tell me what I really believe.]

 

[Zaatar71]

Are you telling me that you do not know what "foreknowledge" means?

No...I am telling you That you have no idea of the difference between foreknowledge, predestination, ordained, decree..you have shown no understanding. A dictionary definition does not get it doneSH.

Here is a simple why to understand it Fore as in "before" and Knowledge "to know about something"

To know about something before it occurs.

This is all wrong biblically. Read the article , read it several times. it will help you if you can grasp it.

 

[Silverhair]

All those verses pertain to the elect

Correct, those the freely believe are then in Christ and are then part of the Elect One, Christ Jesus. Since they are in the Elect One they are then called elect.

 

[Silverhair]

We know that the elect were chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-5. and nobody loves God by nature, we hate Him, a heart that loves God comes from spiritual circumcision which is the new birth

Well you do need to come to a correct understanding of Eph 1:4-5 but that has been pointed out to you many times and it still has not sunk in.

The natural man does not love God as he should but he can still hear and respond to the gospel message.

If that were not so then you have to question the reason for the great commission.

 

[Brightfame52]

Correct, those the freely believe are then in Christ and are then part of the Elect One, Christ Jesus. Since they are in the Elect One they are then called elect.

They were elect b4 the foundation of the world, and they were saved by the eternal purpose b4 the foundation. Thats why they believe in time

 

[Brightfame52]

Well you do need to come to a correct understanding of Eph 1:4-5 but that has been pointed out to you many times and it still has not sunk in.

The natural man does not love God as he should but he can still hear and respond to the gospel message.

If that were not so then you have to question the reason for the great commission.

The natural not only doesnt love God,, He hates God, at enmity against God

 

[Silverhair]

No...I am telling you That you have no idea of the difference between foreknowledge, predestination, ordained, decree..you have shown no understanding. A dictionary definition does not get it doneSH.

Oh you mean I do not use your C/R meanings.

Well since your meanings do not align with the biblical ones then of course I do not use them.

This is all wrong biblically. Read the article , read it several times. it will help you if you can grasp it.

Why would I want to read an article from Pink?

He was a Hyper Cal so his whole philosophy was at odds with the word of God.

You seem to be under the mistaken view that C/R is the standard rather than the word of God.

If you get your standard right then you will get your theology right.

 

[Silverhair]

They were elect b4 the foundation of the world, and they were saved by the eternal purpose b4 the foundation. Thats why they believe in time

Not what the bible say but your welcome to your false understanding of the word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

The natural not only doesnt love God,, He hates God, at enmity against God

Perhaps you should try to actually believe what the bible says rather than the man-made philosophy that you trust now.

You have shown over and over that you are not willing to believe the word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Since you have trouble looking things up for yourself ...

Genesis 50:20 [ESV] As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

Who exercised their Free Will throughout the Story of Joseph?
Whose IMMUTABLE plan was at work that their Free Will was 100% compatible with and advanced?
Who was "sovereign" and "omnipotent" throughout it all ... events unfolding "according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will" [Ephesians 1:11]

That is REAL COMPATIBALISM ... the COMPATIBALISM of the Bible rather than some theology you feel like quoting and insisting that I believe.

[Go ahead, ignore the scripture I post and tell me what I really believe.]

But the bigger problem with compatibilism is that it makes the evil intentions of the brothers part of God’s design, how does that not make God evil?

You may not like the idea that your compatibilism is still determinism but that is what Warfield, J. Hendryx and other calvinists have said. And just by looking the failed logic of compatibilism you can see why they said that.

So you can believe what you want but what you want to believe is not reality.

If compatibilism is true, and human beings can 'freely chose to do what they wish' (however they only ever choose to do whatever their greatest desire is- which was determined by God), then how can that be defined as 'choice'? There can only be one 'greatest desire' by definition- which means there is only one 'choice' that can be made- which is therefore not a choice (which by definition must be made between two or more options).
That is not thinking- it is programming. And if whatever response that a determinist makes in regard to this or any other argument against them is also pre- determined according to their 'greatest desire', then there is only one response they can give according to what God pre-determined them to say/do.

Compatibilism solves nothing. It makes free will “compatible” with determinism by redefining “free will” in a deterministic sense. In the end, compatibilism means only that determinism is compatible with determinism.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not what the bible say but your welcome to your false understanding of the word of God.

Thats why the sacred wrote This Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained[chosen] to eternal life believed.

 

[Brightfame52]

Perhaps you should try to actually believe what the bible says rather than the man-made philosophy that you trust now.

You have shown over and over that you are not willing to believe the word of God.

Now by nature men love a god, but not the True and Living God, the One who has Loved only a chosen people and hates the rest, who has predestinated everyone's destiny b4 the world began, who created some wicked men for hell

 

[Silverhair]

Now by nature men love a god, but not the True and Living God, the One who has Loved only a chosen people and hates the rest, who has predestinated everyone's destiny b4 the world began, who created some wicked men for hell

If Calvinism is true then God irresistibly caused these people to hate Him. Now, Calvinists may not want to own such blunt language but that is what your C/R philosophy teaches. The fact that your philosophy does not align with scripture is the problem you have to deal with.

 

[Brightfame52]

If Calvinism is true then God irresistibly caused these people to hate Him. Now, Calvinists may not want to own such blunt language but that is what your C/R philosophy teaches. The fact that your philosophy does not align with scripture is the problem you have to deal with.

Yes Calvinism is True,, its the Gospel, and you see how you respond to it ?

 

[Silverhair]

Thats why the sacred wrote This Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained[chosen] to eternal life believed.

Again the context does not support your misuse of the text.

This has been pointed out to you many many times but you will not accept the truth as it does not fit with your religion.

The meaning of this word {τεταγμένοι G5021} must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life: {Act_13:46} the Gentiles, as many as were disposed to eternal life, {Act_13:48} believed. {In both cases it is the person, Jew or Gentile, that made the choice.} H. Alford

In the past, God predestined the salvation of the Gentiles. In many places in the Old Testament Scriptures God reveals that the blessing of salvation is for the Gentiles also (e.g., Gen_12:1-3; Isa_42:6; Isa_49:6). When they in faith accept Christ, he grants them the gift of eternal life.
When the Gentiles in Pisidian Antioch put their faith in Jesus Christ, they appropriate eternal life for themselves. Baker's

 

[Brightfame52]

Again the context does not support your misuse of the text.

This has been pointed out to you many many times but you will not accept the truth as it does not fit with your religion.

The meaning of this word {τεταγμένοι G5021} must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life: {Act_13:46} the Gentiles, as many as were disposed to eternal life, {Act_13:48} believed. {In both cases it is the person, Jew or Gentile, that made the choice.} H. Alford

In the past, God predestined the salvation of the Gentiles. In many places in the Old Testament Scriptures God reveals that the blessing of salvation is for the Gentiles also (e.g., Gen_12:1-3; Isa_42:6; Isa_49:6). When they in faith accept Christ, he grants them the gift of eternal life.
When the Gentiles in Pisidian Antioch put their faith in Jesus Christ, they appropriate eternal life for themselves. Baker's

Sure the context supports election, the entire scripture supports election to salvation.

 

[atpollard]

But the bigger problem with compatibilism is that it makes the evil intentions of the brothers part of God’s design, how does that not make God evil?

Genesis 50:20 [ESV] As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

God said it was so, not me. I am only guilty of believing God.
You have a bigger problem ... you find the ways of the LORD unfair and evil.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes Calvinism is True,, its the Gospel, and you see how you respond to it ?

To call the C/R view the gospel is close to blasphemy.

Augustine brought pagan philosophy into the church in the 4th century and Calvin and others carried it forward to today.

If you want to call that the gospel than you have more serious problem than just misunderstanding some scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

Sure the context supports election, the entire scripture supports election to salvation.

Only for those of the C/R religion, not for those that trust the word of God.