"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

[Zaatar71]

Oh you mean I do not use your C/R meanings.

Well since your meanings do not align with the biblical ones then of course I do not use them.



Why would I want to read an article from Pink?

He was a Hyper Cal so his whole philosophy was at odds with the word of God.

You seem to be under the mistaken view that C/R is the standard rather than the word of God.

If you get your standard right then you will get your theology right.

Now I see why you do not understand. Making excuses and not looking, is a sure way to miss truth. You evidently want to make your own theology that no one else holds to. The solid confessions of faith do not agree with any of your ideas, so I will stick with those who have studied and wrote down what are mainstream belief's. You are welcome to your rogue ideas,lol...good luck with that!

 

[Silverhair]

Genesis 50:20 [ESV] As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

God said it was so, not me. I am only guilty of believing God.
You have a bigger problem ... you find the ways of the LORD unfair and evil.

I know what the bible says and I have no problem with it but when you run it through your C/R religion and determinism then you end up making God the source of all evil.

You can try to escape the reality of that by crying but that is not what I believe but then you claim that has to determine all things or He is not God.

I am not sure most of the C/R's actually know what they believe as it seem to shift depending on what argument they are trying to make.

 

[Silverhair]

Now I see why you do not understand. Making excuses and not looking, is a sure way to miss truth. You evidently want to make your own theology that no one else holds to. The solid confessions of faith do not agree with any of your ideas, so I will stick with those who have studied and wrote down what are mainstream belief's. You are welcome to your rogue ideas,lol...good luck with that!

If you want to hold to main stream belief's then you will have to change your view as C/R is not mainstream. Your view came from Augustine and the pagan views that he brought into the church. Are you sure you want to trust in those pagan ideas?

 

[Brightfame52]

To call the C/R view the gospel is close to blasphemy.

Augustine brought pagan philosophy into the church in the 4th century and Calvin and others carried it forward to today.

If you want to call that the gospel than you have more serious problem than just misunderstanding some scripture.

See now you call the sacred Truths of the Gospel Blasphemy.

 

[Brightfame52]

Only for those of the C/R religion, not for those that trust the word of God.

From Genesis to Revelation, and every book in between, sovereign unconditional election is taught.

 

[Charlie24]

See now you call the sacred Truths of the Gospel Blasphemy.

Silverhair is not the only one who calls it blasphemy!

 

[Brightfame52]

Silverhair is not the only one who calls it blasphemy!

Of course not, plenty folk do

 

[Silverhair]

See now you call the sacred Truths of the Gospel Blasphemy.

So you are saying that pagan philosophy is the gospel. You have lost your mind BF.

 

[Silverhair]

Of course not, plenty folk do

The biblical gospel is the truth but what you are calling the gospel is not the biblical gospel BF. It is just a man-made 4th century philosophy based on pagan teachings.

I do think you have misunderstood what @Charlie24 meant.

 

[Zaatar71]

If you want to hold to main stream belief's then you will have to change your view as C/R is not mainstream. Your view came from Augustine and the pagan views that he brought into the church. Are you sure you want to trust in those pagan ideas?

I have not read Augustine. You keep talking about C/r views, but I am not sure you understand the teaching you speak about.
The views I have seen posted by these men on here, are mostly mainstream. You go outside the mainstream. If you look at the historic confessions it is clear who is mainstream and who is not.

 

[Silverhair]

I have not read Augustine. You keep talking about C/r views, but I am not sure you understand the teaching you speak about.
The views I have seen posted by these men on here, are mostly mainstream. You go outside the mainstream. If you look at the historic confessions it is clear who is mainstream and who is not.

You do not have to read Augustine to be following the pagan philosophy that he brought into the church. You just have to follow the C/R teachings.

The posts that you think are mainstream are posted by those that hold to the C/R view. But those views are not mainstream. Do just a bit of research and you will see that you are in error.

Where the bigger problem comes in for the C/R view is that it misuses the word of God. And by there misuse has called the character of God into question.

Actually if you look at the historic confession and ECF you will find that the C/R view not supported.

 

[Zaatar71]

You do not have to read Augustine to be following the pagan philosophy that he brought into the church. You just have to follow the C/R teachings.

The posts that you think are mainstream are posted by those that hold to the C/R view. But those views are not mainstream. Do just a bit of research and you will see that you are in error.

Where the bigger problem comes in for the C/R view is that it misuses the word of God. And by there misuse has called the character of God into question.

Actually if you look at the historic confession and ECF you will find that the C/R view not supported.

The ECF were apostates. I know that those who post close to as you call it C/r are scripturally based posts. I do not get that from your posts. Yours are negative, and you post more about Augustine, than Jesus.

 

[Silverhair]

The ECF were apostates. I know that those who post close to as you call it C/r are scripturally based posts. I do not get that from your posts. Yours are negative, and you post more about Augustine, than Jesus.

You have some serious problems if you think the the ECF were apostates.

I have to ask where do you come up with these of the wall comments?

I refer to augustine as he is the one who brought the pagan philosophy that you hold to into the church.

If you do not see how many times I post scripture then it is only because you do not like the scripture I post.

What you consider negative is just me pointing out the errors of the C/R view.

Here is a list of the ECF. Are you sure you want to call them apostate?

Or do you call them that because they did not support the C/R views hold?

List of Church Fathers​

From sources across the web​

Clement of Rome
Ignatius of Antioch
Justin Martyr
Ambrose
Athanasius
Polycarp
Augustine although I have serious doubt if he should be considered a church father except of for the RCC
Ignatius
Irenaeus of Lyons
John Chrysostom
Origen of Alexandria has been questioned but is open for debate
Polycarp of Smyrna
Tertullian
Basil the Great
Cyprian
Jerome
Origen
Papias of Hierapolis
Cyril of Alexandria
Hippolytus of Rome
Amphilochius of Iconium
Athanasius of Alexandria
Athenagoras of Athens
Chrysostom Of Antioch

 

[atpollard]

Origen believed all people would be saved through Christ.
Tertullian was convinced people should be baptized on their deathbed to ensure their salvation was secured.
Irenaeus believed Old Testament Gentiles were justified by living according to Greek philosophy.

(I will let you figure out what is wrong with those 3 positions.)

 

[Silverhair]

Origen believed all people would be saved through Christ.
Tertullian was convinced people should be baptized on their deathbed to ensure their salvation was secured.
Irenaeus believed Old Testament Gentiles were justified by living according to Greek philosophy.

(I will let you figure out what is wrong with those 3 positions.)

Care to provide the links for the information.

I always find it odd the those of the C/R seem to have all this information and yet the people that actually study the ECF's etc do not make the claims you do.

But I do stand to be corrected so now it is up to you to provide the links.

 

[Brightfame52]

So you are saying that pagan philosophy is the gospel. You have lost your mind BF.

Im saying you are calling the Gospel all these names, Tulip Truths. Now you calling it pagan philosophy. This was foretold though 2 Pet 2:2

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

 

[Brightfame52]

The biblical gospel is the truth but what you are calling the gospel is not the biblical gospel BF. It is just a man-made 4th century philosophy based on pagan teachings.

I do think you have misunderstood what @Charlie24 meant.

The biblical gospel consist of what is nowadays called calvinism, its the word of God. Listen to the Baptist Charles Spurgeon

And I have my own private opinion, that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism. Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in his dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor, I think, can we preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the peculiar redemption which Christ made for his elect and chosen people; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation, after having believed. Such a gospel I abhor. The gospel of the Bible is not such a gospel as that. We preach Christ and him crucified in a different fashion, and to all gainsayers we reply, ‘We have not so learned Christ.’ [Spurgeon’s Sermons, vol. I (Baker Books, reprinted 2007), 88-89.] Charles Spurgeon: “Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.”

 

[Silverhair]

The biblical gospel consist of what is nowadays called calvinism, its the word of God. Listen to the Baptist Charles Spurgeon

I have read Spurgeon but I do not use him to tell me what the gospel message is.

This is the gospel message.
1Co 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

The TULIP/DoG is not the gospel message.

All you have done is show that you trust man over the word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Im saying you are calling the Gospel all these names, Tulip Truths. Now you calling it pagan philosophy. This was foretold though 2 Pet 2:2

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

The TULIP is not the gospel BF. It is a man-made philosophy which is based on the pagan teachings that augustine brought into the church.

The TULIP/DoG does not honor God but rather calls the character of God into question.

The influential philosophies as ‘Stoicism, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and Manicheanism’ that all gave life to Augustine’s later theology.

Stoics, there was assumed freedom that was ultimately “hidden within a mere façade of “free will.

Neoplatonists, a free choice meant that there is a need for the restoration “by divine infusion to restore the will.

Gnostics, “all works are predestined, discipline and abstinence effect nothing, and the elect are saved by knowing that they are saved.

Manicheans, man’s “‘enslaved will’ cannot choose – it is damned until unilaterally released” by God’s own initiative.

 

[Brightfame52]

I have read Spurgeon but I do not use him to tell me what the gospel message is.

This is the gospel message.
1Co 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

The TULIP/DoG is not the gospel message.

All you have done is show that you trust man over the word of God.

Yes it is. Thats just a brief historical narrative. Paul used the scriptures to go into detail about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. For instance, who is Christ in the first place ? You think He just uttered those few sentences and sat down and handed out a invitation ?