Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon

[OldRegular]

Back on my post #79 we had the following exchange.

Originally Posted by steaver
Not sure you read the sermon so here it is with bolded emphasis....Now you PLEASE read carefully

I did not read the sermon, assumed it was from a source, but have no intention of reading it I read your introductory comments and I commented on your introductory comments!

I have been off this thread for several days but this morning I read the so-called sermon. Have you ever heard a so-called Calvinist preach such a sermon as you presented. I would say NO you have not. To put it bluntly you presented a collection of asinine statements. No preacher called by God would preach such nonsense as you present in your "sermon"!. I suggest that you find some of Charles Spurgeon's sermons and read them. Then you will have some concept of what one who believes the Biblical Doctrines of Election and Grace preaches.

Frankly nothing in the so-called sermon merits comment and I have already told you {post's #60 & 62} that:

Belief in TULIP/Calvinism does not make you one of God's elect.

as you boldly proclaim in the OP.

 

[DHK]

He is God to them ! What a dumb question !

Let me put plainly to you.
In Calvin's doctrine of reprobation: Just as the elect are saved before the foundation of the world so are the non-elect damned before the foundation of the world. There is nothing they can do about it. Even if the gospel were presented to them they are unable to respond to it, for just as you keep affirming "they are lost and blinded to the gospel forever." From the foundation of the world they are doomed to the Lake of Fire.
BTW, Sproul agrees with Calvin's doctrine here.
Now, let me ask you again.
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect?

 

[savedbymercy]

Let me put plainly to you.
In Calvin's doctrine of reprobation: Just as the elect are saved before the foundation of the world so are the non-elect damned before the foundation of the world. There is nothing they can do about it. Even if the gospel were presented to them they are unable to respond to it, for just as you keep affirming "they are lost and blinded to the gospel forever." From the foundation of the world they are doomed to the Lake of Fire.
BTW, Sproul agrees with Calvin's doctrine here.
Now, let me ask you again.
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect?

The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and that permanently 2 Cor 4:3-4 ! There is no Salvation design or offer to the lost in the Gospel it is for their condemnation a savor of death unto death, they cannot believe it !

 

[plain_n_simple]

Answer the question: Is God a God of Love to the non-elect?

 

[OldRegular]

Let me put plainly to you.
In Calvin's doctrine of reprobation: Just as the elect are saved before the foundation of the world so are the non-elect damned before the foundation of the world. There is nothing they can do about it. Even if the gospel were presented to them they are unable to respond to it, for just as you keep affirming "they are lost and blinded to the gospel forever." From the foundation of the world they are doomed to the Lake of Fire.
BTW, Sproul agrees with Calvin's doctrine here.
Now, let me ask you again.
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect?

Was the Apostle Paul wrong when he wrote:

Romans 9:10-18
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Was Malachi wrong when he wrote:

Malachi 1:2, 3
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

 

[savedbymercy]

Answer the question: Is God a God of Love to the non-elect?

See post 191 !

 

[savedbymercy]

Let me put plainly to you.
In Calvin's doctrine of reprobation: Just as the elect are saved before the foundation of the world so are the non-elect damned before the foundation of the world. There is nothing they can do about it. Even if the gospel were presented to them they are unable to respond to it, for just as you keep affirming "they are lost and blinded to the gospel forever." From the foundation of the world they are doomed to the Lake of Fire.
BTW, Sproul agrees with Calvin's doctrine here.
Now, let me ask you again.
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect?

See post 191 ! What did I say there ?

 

[plain_n_simple]

See post 191 !

You addressed the elect, not the non-elect. Now please answer his question:Is God a God of Love to the non-elect?

 

[DHK]

Was the Apostle Paul wrong when he wrote:

Romans 9:10-18
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Was Malachi wrong when he wrote:

Malachi 1:2, 3
2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

First mistake: You are interpolating OT history into NT theology.
Second mistake: you are looking at history and assuming that as it was in history so it will be in future. That is not necessarily true, especially since it was OT history.
Third mistake: You are ignoring the omniscience of God. Are you assuming the omniscience of God, or are you willing to leave that omniscience with God alone and take the Bible literally as it should be taken.

10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

1. This passage had to do both with Israel and with prophecy.
2. The Lord had already told her that the second born would be pre-eminent, even when they struggled in the womb, was this revealed to her.
3. The word "hated" means "love less." It was in God's omniscience that He knew that Esau would become a profane man, and therefore the blessing would fall upon Jacob. What is so troubling about that?

14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth
--How can we conclude there is unrighteousness with God when we know that He knows the end from the beginning. He knew Esau would be a profane man.
--He knew about Pharaoh. He was an unbeliever. Before Moses ever came he hardened his heart against the true God. God knew that He would continue to harden his heart with continued revelation no matter what that revelation would be. Pharoah was given every chance to repent. But he kept hardening his heart. God knew about it from the foundation of the world. God did not force it upon him.
Therefore he had mercy upon whom he had mercy. He had mercy upon some of the Egyptians in the Exodus because some of them did believe--of their own free will.
Do we dare attribute injustice to God?! God forbid!!

 

[PreachTony]

See post 191 ! What did I say there ?

Here's your quote from Post 191:

God is a God of Love to His Elect ! Now if you don't like it, you take it up with God in the Day of Judgment !

Nothing in that quote says anything about the non-elect. I'd like to know your answer to their question.

 

[DHK]

See post 191 ! What did I say there ?

IOW, you admit that God is a cruel God to the non-elect. True?

 

[savedbymercy]

IOW, you admit that God is a cruel God to the non-elect. True?

Do you have a post stating that I said that God is cruel to the non elect ? If you do, please provide it, if you dont, you owe me a public apology for misrepresentation of me by suggesting that I have stated God is cruel, so which one will it be ?

 

[PreachTony]

Do you have a post stating that I said that God is cruel to the non elect ? If you do, please provide it, if you dont, you owe me a public apology for misrepresentation of me by suggesting that I have stated God is cruel, so which one will it be ?

No, you said "God is a God of Love to His Elect !" We've asked about God's relationship to the non-Elect and you seemingly refuse to answer.

 

[DHK]

Do you have a post stating that I said that God is cruel to the non elect ? If you do, please provide it, if you dont, you owe me a public apology for misrepresentation of me by suggesting that I have stated God is cruel, so which one will it be ?

I have no choice but to assume that conclusion because you will not answer the question (though posed to you many times),
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect? Yes or no.
A non answer means that he is a cruel God. That is what we will assume.

 

[convicted1]

No. He's advocating that the Ninevites responded to the Word, repented, and thus God spared them.

I dunno 'bout that Brother Don....here's an excerpt from Brother Bob Ryan's post....

God sent Jonah to Ninevah without a sacrifice - and God granted them mercy in response to their repentance - so much so that it angered Job(sic) - yet Job(sic) admitted that he knew this would be God's response to the non-Jews.

He said without a sacrifice....

 

[OldRegular]

First mistake: You are interpolating OT history into NT theology.

I didn't the Apostle Paul, inspired by God, did!

 

[savedbymercy]

I have no choice but to assume that conclusion because you will not answer the question (though posed to you many times),
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect? Yes or no.
A non answer means that he is a cruel God. That is what we will assume.

Then you are a slanderous misrepresenting person ! I have made my self perfectly clear as to who I believe God loves, the Elect . And you impute to me, that believing that makes me say God is cruel, when in reality it is you who think that God is cruel for exclusively loving His Elect ! GOD is still Love to His Elect without loving the none elect ! So you believe that God is cruel and except He gives you repentance, you will answer for that in the day of Judgment, along with your slanderous misrepresenting of myself !

 

[DHK]

Then you are a slanderous misrepresenting person ! I have made my self perfectly clear as to who I believe God loves, the Elect . And you impute to me, that believing that makes me say God is cruel, when in reality it is you who think that God is cruel for exclusively loving His Elect ! GOD is still Love to His Elect without loving the none elect ! So you believe that God is cruel and except He gives you repentance, you will answer for that in the day of Judgment, along with your slanderous misrepresenting of myself !

No, I can freely tell you what I believe, and have the free will to do so. Apparently you do not. God forces you to type on that keyboard. Everything you do is foreordained by God. Isn't that true?
I believe that in the Sovereignty of the infinite love of God, He has given a choice to all men whether to accept or to reject the offer of His love shown through the sacrifice of His son. They are free to choose. God is love.

As for you, you won't give a simple yes or no. We must assume the inevitable then. You are like the little child who broke a dish. "Tommy did you do this?"
Tommy won't answer because he knows he will get in trouble. His silence answers for him. He is guilty by his silence. If he were innocent he would immediately answer: "No, I didn't do it." And possibly he would be able to give a reasoned answer.
You are guilty be your silence.
But I will give you another chance.

Is God a God of Love to the non-elect? Yes or no.

 

[Iconoclast]

I have no choice but to assume that conclusion because you will not answer the question (though posed to you many times),
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect? Yes or no.
A non answer means that he is a cruel God. That is what we will assume.[/QUOTE]

You seem to delight in making wrong assumptions....IF SBM wanted to say that he would have....


Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man

39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.

41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.


I do not think these verses express love toward non elect persons do you?

 

[DHK]

I have no choice but to assume that conclusion because you will not answer the question (though posed to you many times),
Is God a God of Love to the non-elect? Yes or no.
A non answer means that he is a cruel God. That is what we will assume.[/QUOTE]

You seem to delight in making wrong assumptions....IF SBM wanted to say that he would have....


Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man

39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.

41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.


I do not think these verses express love toward non elect persons do you?

I think that SBM can answer for herself.