Preparing a Truthful, Calvinistic Sermon (by a Calvinist)

[convicted1]

These debates are over the fatalism of Calvinism.

Calvinism does not=fatalism...

Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world...(Rev 13:8)

The sheep's names were written in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the world...(Rev 17:8)

We were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world...(Eph 1:4)

God's work was finished from the foundation of the world...(Heb 4:3)

God's Kingdom was prepared for His sheep from the foundation of the world...(Matt 25:34)

All of God's redemptive works were finished, were accomplished from the foundation of the world. He sees them as already finished, being outside of time, yet they' re fulfilled in time. Christ was slain from the foundation of the world from God's perspective, yet His crucifixion(sp?), took place in time. We were saved from the foundation of the world from God's perspective, yet our conversion took place in time. All of what has happened, is happening, and will happen, all of it was from the foundation of the world from God's perspective, but had to happen, is happening now, and will happen in time...

 

[convicted1]

Yes, but the subject matter is "Calvinistic" sermon. Now unless you hold to the Gospel as being Calvinism, the sermon needs to have something Calvinistic actually in it.

As much as I disagree with non-cal theology, I don't make a witch hunt of it...

Jesus said "let him that hath ears" (Matthew 11:15, 13:9, & 13:43) (Mark 4:9) (Luke 8:8 & 14:35).

Now, why did Christ say that?

 

[OldRegular]

He chose Noah and his family because they believed. All the others were given a chance to believe as Noah preached to them for 120 years. So let's not misrepresent us or scripture.

That is not what Scripture tells us:

Genesis 6:8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[steaver]

Calvinism does not=fatalism...

Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world...(Rev 13:8)

The sheep's names were written in the Lambs Book of Life from the foundation of the world...(Rev 17:8)

We were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world...(Eph 1:4)

God's work was finished from the foundation of the world...(Heb 4:3)

God's Kingdom was prepared for His sheep from the foundation of the world...(Matt 25:34)

All of God's redemptive works were finished, were accomplished from the foundation of the world. He sees them as already finished, being outside of time, yet they' re fulfilled in time. Christ was slain from the foundation of the world from God's perspective, yet His crucifixion(sp?), took place in time. We were saved from the foundation of the world from God's perspective, yet our conversion took place in time. All of what has happened, is happening, and will happen, all of it was from the foundation of the world from God's perspective, but had to happen, is happening now, and will happen in time...

Amen! It's called "foreknowledge". Omniscient.

 

[OldRegular]

Brother, we ALL believe that. These debates are over the fatalism of Calvinism. And why the Calvinist feels a need to hold back some things they believe to be true.

steaver

I asked this question of others and really got no answer. How do you know that you were not unconditionally chosen by God before the foundation of the world to Salvation in Jesus Christ?

 

[OldRegular]

Sad for you. I do not have anything that is "superfluous" to the message. Repent, believe, take up your cross, and follow Jesus. I do not have to hold anything back. I don't have to hide that I believe God only chooses some, hope your one of them. Otherwise you have no opportunity. To bad so sad.

RevM,

I asked this question of others and really got no answer. How do you know that you were not unconditionally chosen by God before the foundation of the world to Salvation in Jesus Christ?

 

[convicted1]

Amen! It's called "foreknowledge". Omniscient.

That's not the biblical definition of foreknowledge, Brother.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."(Romans 8:29,30)

Now, God knows everyone who will have ever lived, from the oldest in Methuselah, to the youngest baby ever aborted. Yet, God didn't forknow all in a saving manner. Jesus will tell them on the left, "I never knew you"…

 

[OldRegular]

Steaver, you guys preach lies when you state in the pulpit Christ died for everyone and left nobody out. Look at the OT alone. God chose Noah and seven others and destroyed everyone else. He chose Abram to be the 'father of many nations'. Aaron and the high priests made sacrifices for Israel. The philistines, perrizites, hittites, edomites, amorites, jebusites, ammonites, et al, had not the Old Covenant given to them...

It puzzles me and I have posed this question before. Most have no problem believing that God chose Israel out of all peoples, some to Salvation in Jesus Christ yet they refuse to believe that He has unconditionally chosen all He saves.

Abraham was a pagan when he was chosen. God tells us of Israel:

Exodus 32:9. And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

Exodus 33:3. Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.

Exodus 33:5. For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.

Exodus 34:9. And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

Deuteronomy 9:6. Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.

Deuteronomy 9:13. Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

Deuteronomy 10:16. Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

2 Chronicles 30:8. Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.

Act 7:51. Ye sstiffneckedand uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 

[OldRegular]

Nothing posted there adds up to God withholds grace from some.

Then why is it that not all who hear the Gospel believe? Does God give some more Grace than others? Are only the "polite" sinners saved? Obviously not because the Apostle Paul was saved and he considered himself the chief of sinners because he persecuted the Church and had part in the stoning of Stephen!

Again: Then why is it that not all who hear the Gospel believe?

 

[convicted1]

Then why is it that not all who hear the Gospel believe? Does God give some more Grace than others? Are only the "polite" sinners saved? Obviously not because the Apostle Paul was saved and he considered himself the chief of sinners because he persecuted the Church and had part in the stoning of Stephen!

Again: Then why is it that not all who hear the Gospel believe?

When Adam, the whole race fell. God could have us all in that fallen state and still be holy, just, good, impeccable, sinless, immaculate, &c.

But no, in His mercy, He sent Jesus to be our...

--Scapegoat...taking our sins upon Himself
--Sacrificial Lamb...dying in our stead
--High Priest...He offered Himself and now is our Mediator/Intercessor before God
--Resurrection...He lives so that we can live also
--Groom...we're His bride
--Way...I am the way, the Truth, and the Life
--Light...He called us out of darkness into that marvellous Light
--Hope...He is our Hope of Glory


All of these are for the elect, the sheep...

 

[DHK]

Then why is it that not all who hear the Gospel believe? Does God give some more Grace than others? Are only the "polite" sinners saved? Obviously not because the Apostle Paul was saved and he considered himself the chief of sinners because he persecuted the Church and had part in the stoning of Stephen!

Again: Then why is it that not all who hear the Gospel believe?

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

The answer to your question is: because of their own free will they reject the gospel; they reject Christ. Just as this rich young ruler reject the obvious and evident love of Jesus, and attached his love to his riches instead so others reject Christ for various reasons: rebellion, love of riches, love of this world, love of fame, love of family, etc. It is their choice. It has nothing to do with election. They choose to reject Christ, just as this man did.
The fact that God knew aforetime that he would reject him does not alleviate him from his will and choice to reject him. Neither does it mean he was forced to reject him. Neither does it mean he was elected to do so. He had the choice.

 

[savedbymercy]

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

The answer to your question is: because of their own free will they reject the gospel; they reject Christ. Just as this rich young ruler reject the obvious and evident love of Jesus, and attached his love to his riches instead so others reject Christ for various reasons: rebellion, love of riches, love of this world, love of fame, love of family, etc. It is their choice. It has nothing to do with election. They choose to reject Christ, just as this man did.
The fact that God knew aforetime that he would reject him does not alleviate him from his will and choice to reject him. Neither does it mean he was forced to reject him. Neither does it mean he was elected to do so. He had the choice.

No scripture says that anyone of their own freewill they reject the Gospel !

Mk 10:21 doesnt say that !

It is their choice. It has nothing to do with election.

Never does a scripture say that ?

Neither does it mean he was forced to reject him. Neither does it mean he was elected to do so. He had the choice.

No scripture says this, all humanism and invalid !

 

[convicted1]

Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

The answer to your question is: because of their own free will they reject the gospel; they reject Christ. Just as this rich young ruler reject the obvious and evident love of Jesus, and attached his love to his riches instead so others reject Christ for various reasons: rebellion, love of riches, love of this world, love of fame, love of family, etc. It is their choice. It has nothing to do with election. They choose to reject Christ, just as this man did.
The fact that God knew aforetime that he would reject him does not alleviate him from his will and choice to reject him. Neither does it mean he was forced to reject him. Neither does it mean he was elected to do so. He had the choice.

Men freely reject Christ, that's all they do in their fallen state. Adam fled and God sought him out. Same today. People willfully flee...

 

[Reformed]

Sad for you. I do not have anything that is "superfluous" to the message. Repent, believe, take up your cross, and follow Jesus. I do not have to hold anything back. I don't have to hide that I believe God only chooses some, hope your one of them. Otherwise you have no opportunity. To bad so sad.

Not sad at all. Glorious! Glorious that the Gospel is able to save to the uttermost all who believe. Every single Calvinist preacher worth his salt confesses that.

What is sad is that would even lump Charles Spurgeon into the same category that you put me in.

 

[Reformed]

To the apoplectic anti-Calvinists (you know who you are):

As a Calvinist, If I am preaching on Acts 16:31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household"; why would I tell my audience that they could only believe this if they are elect and If they are not elect they cannot believe it and they will go to hell? If they do believe and are converted is that not evidence that they are elect? Since election is not in the context of the passage, why would I launch into a polemic on election? Could it simply be that your hatred of Calvinism forces you to see it this way?

 

[Reformed]

I really don't see how a Calvinist can believe that only a few are Elect and no others are even offered opportunity, and can then still look a congregation in the eye and tell them how much God loves them all.

Tony,

If you think about it you probably believe there are only a few elect as well. Matthew writes:

Matthew 7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Comparatively speaking only a small fraction of people will become Christians and be numbered with the elect.

The reason I can look people in the eye when I preach is because I proclaiming the whole counsel of God to all who are listening. It is my charge to preach the Word. It is not my job to save anyone. I do not convict. I do not regenerate. I do not justify. That is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Now, why is it that I cannot say to unbelievers that God loves them? The word love, in used to describe God, acts as a verb. God does not love in a vacuum. God's love is effectual. It accomplishes something that God has intended. If we are talking about God's covenantal love it is only directed towards those who are in covenant with God. If God truly loves sinners like He loves His children, then all all sinners will believe.

I charge the Arminian preacher who claims that God loves sinners (whether they believe or not) with cruelty. It would be a cruel God that would love a sinner and yet not save him. it would be an impotent God whose love could only lead the horse to water but not cause it to drink. Free will puts salvation in the hands of the sinner, not God.

 

[DHK]

To the apoplectic anti-Calvinists (you know who you are):

As a Calvinist, If I am preaching on Acts 16:31 "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household"; why would I tell my audience that they could only believe this if the are elect and If they are not elect they cannot believe it and they will go to hell? If they do believe and are converted is that not evidence that they are elect? Since election is not in the context of the passage, why would I launch into a polemic on election? Could it simply be that your hatred of Calvinism forces you to see it this way?

No, This is a more reasoned reply. The Calvinist starts out with the over-riding principle of election, as if election causes belief. The Bible does not teach that. The stress on sovereignty and even the definition of sovereignty has been changed. Is not God sovereign enough and omnipotent to include within his sovereignty the free will of man. Certainly he knows which way man is going to choose. If he didn't know in his omniscience, then he wouldn't be God.
As David testified, He knows every thought, every word, etc. He knows every thing about us (Psalm 139).
We are not the puppets of the "Great Puppeteer". That is to demean God and to demean man who is made in the image of God.

Simply because God knows what choice man is going to make does not mean that He is foreordained, chosen, or forced to make that choice. He does have the choice within God's sovereignty. There is a moral choice to do good and to do evil. If there is a moral choice to do evil, there must be a moral choice to do good. Otherwise there is no choice at all, and to call it a choice to do evil is logically wrong, for it is no choice at all.

 

[PreachTony]

No scripture says that anyone of their own freewill they reject the Gospel !

Mk 10:21 doesnt say that !

Never does a scripture say that ?

No scripture says this, all humanism and invalid !

The end point of this conversation being that God forces them to reject the gospel, meaning God forces them to commit unpardonable sin. If man doesn't have the free will to accept the gospel, then man obviously does not have the free will to reject the gospel.

 

[convicted1]

The end point of this conversation being that God forces them to reject the gospel, meaning God forces them to commit unpardonable sin. If man doesn't have the free will to accept the gospel, then man obviously does not have the free will to reject the gospel.

Men frely reject God, no coersion needed. It's what comes naturally to them...

 

[DHK]

Men frely reject God, no coersion needed. It's what comes naturally to them...

If man can freely reject God than he can freely accept him. You can't have one without the other. To freely reject is the admission of a will. If that is the only choice he has then it is not a choice and it is not free. In fact it is no choice at all--it is force. If he has the ability to reject then he must have the ability to receive. Then and only then will your statement make sense.