Preterism Proof

[HankD]

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.


Luke 21
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

"this generation" refers to - The "fig tree" generation.

HankD

 

[robycop3]

I don't have him on ignore, I just ignore him, just let him rant about preterists and ford corvettes. Does my soul no good to contend with his irritating bluster with no substance.

Well, actually, it's because you can't defend preterism. You haven't presented one quark of PROOF the eschatological events have already occurred.

 

[robycop3]

Yeah, I don't debate Him to influence him toward my understandijng, in fact I'd prefer if he not come to the realization of the truth of preterism, for his presence here and his arguments serve to highlight to stark difference between our views and as such are invaluable to me in helping mo\ake sure our readers have all the information about both angles and can make informed decisions based on who they think has the weight of scripture behind them.

Actually, the premise is very simple. If the eschatological events have already occurred, you should be able to TELL US THE NAME of the "man of sin" and his false prophet. you should be able to describe the mark of the beast in detail & tell us who issued it. you should be able to tell us when all green grass was burned up, & when all life in the seas died, as well as many other things prophesied to occur.

But so far, you're batting ZERO in the "proof" dept.

 

[robycop3]

Yes, calling someone Tommy who is named Thomas is the unforgivable sin. Especially when they have had a relationship for years. I can't believe we are actually having this conversation.

Bob Stoops was hired @ Oklahoma in 1998, he was Bob to everyone in Okla. However those who knew him prior to 1998 would call him Bobby. How demeaning of Steve Spurrier, Bill Snyder, Lee Corso etc.....

But it allows you to avoid Jesus' use of "this generation" in the Gospels.

Well, actually, several instances of "this generation" is kerplunked by the FACT that the prophesied eschatological events HAVEN'T YET HAPPENED.

 

[robycop3]

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.


Luke 21
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

"this generation" refers to - The "fig tree" generation.

HankD

I believe it's VERY-OBVIOUS "that" generation was NOT the one in which Jesus returned. Since Jesus is never incorrect, then some of mens' understanding of the definition of "genea" in certain contexts is Scripture must be incorrect, as the prophesied eschatological events did NOT occur in "that" generation.

 

[HankD]

Depending on the definition of the "fig tree generation" it either is not over or hasn't yet happened.

HankD

 

[Covenanter]

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.


Luke 21
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

"this generation" refers to - The "fig tree" generation.

HankD

I believe it's VERY-OBVIOUS "that" generation was NOT the one in which Jesus returned. Since Jesus is never incorrect, then some of mens' understanding of the definition of "genea" in certain contexts is Scripture must be incorrect, as the prophesied eschatological events did NOT occur in "that" generation.

Since Jesus is never incorrect, then some of mens' understanding of the definition of "genea" in certain contexts is Scripture must be incorrect.

Read Habakkuk 3 to see how the historic events of the Exodus are described in similar terms to the coming of Jesus for the AD 70 destruction.

Jesus said he would come before this generation passed. The earthly events he prophesied took place as prophesied. The heavenly events must also have taken place as prophesied.

 

[Grasshopper]

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.


Luke 21
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

"this generation" refers to - The "fig tree" generation.

HankD

From the article I posted earlier:

In addition, we are told in Matthew 24:33 who will see the signs: “even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.” The “you” is them not us

 

[TCassidy]

So, the Great Commission, "Go ye into all the world . . . " does not apply to us?

John 13:35 doesn't apply to us either?

 

[Grasshopper]

. I believe it's VERY-OBVIOUS "that" generation was NOT the one in which Jesus returned. as the prophesied eschatological events did NOT occur in "that" generation.

It was a "coming" in judgement, not a physical return.

Since Jesus is never incorrect, then some of mens' understanding of the definition of "genea" in certain contexts is Scripture must be incorrect, as the prophesied eschatological events did NOT occur in "that" generation.

Your comments make that quite obvious.

as the prophesied eschatological events did NOT occur in "that" generation.

So how does [Edit: Thomas Ice] change “this generation” into a future generation? He adds words to the text. In their book Charting the End Times,[Edit: Thomas Ice] and co-author Tim LaHaye argue that Matthew 24:34 should read, “The generation that ‘sees’ these things will not pass till all is fulfilled.”10 In order to get this meaning, “this” has to be replaced with “the” and four words have to be added to the verse: “The generation that sees these signs will not pass away. . . .” This is not the way to interpret the Bible.

[Edit: Provide a cite for quoted material or delete it.]

 

[HankD]

From the article I posted earlier:

The “you” is them not us

Says you Grasshopper - You have much to learn

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

It was a "coming" in judgement, not a physical return.

Millerism run amuck.

 

[David Kent]

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Mark 13
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.


Luke 21
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

"this generation" refers to - The "fig tree" generation.

HankD

I am sorry, brother, but why don't you read what it actually says.

29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

"When you see the shoots of the fig tree, and all the trees; then you know that summer is on the way," or any other plants, for that matter.

There is no fig three generation it is given as and example.

As for "this generation" Robycop3 has already confirmed that "this generation" in Mattew 23 was the generation that Jesus was addressing.

 

[David Kent]

So, the Great Commission, "Go ye into all the world . . . " does not apply to us?

John 13:35 doesn't apply to us either?

Mr Cassidy, the great Commission was not addressed to "this generation"

 

[Grasshopper]

Millerism run amuck.

John Gill the Millerite:

and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. The Arabic version reads it, "ye shall see", as is expressed by Christ, in Mat 26:64. Where the high priest, chief priests, Scribes, and elders, and the whole sanhedrim of the Jews are spoken to: and as the same persons, namely, the Jews, are meant here as there; so the same coming of the son of man is intended; not his coming at the last day to judgment; though that will be in the clouds of heaven, and with great power and glory; but his coming to bring on, and give the finishing stroke to the destruction of that people, which was a dark and cloudy dispensation to them: and when they felt the power of his arm, might, if not blind and stupid to the last degree, see the glory of his person, that he was more than a mere man, and no other than the Son of God, whom they had despised, rejected, and crucified; and who came to set up his kingdom and glory in a more visible and peculiar manner, among the Gentiles.

Perhaps you should ban yourself for demeaning a great theologian like John Gill by calling him a Millerite.

 

[Grasshopper]

Says you Grasshopper - You have much to learn

HankD

Ahh, so it wasn't meant for them. Guess the joke was on them.

 

[Grasshopper]

It was a "coming" in judgement, not a physical return.



Your comments make that quite obvious.



So how does Tommy change “this generation” into a future generation? He adds words to the text. In their book Charting the End Times,[Edit: Thomas Ice] and co-author Tim LaHaye argue that Matthew 24:34 should read, “The generation that ‘sees’ these things will not pass till all is fulfilled.”10 In order to get this meaning, “this” has to be replaced with “the” and four words have to be added to the verse: “The generation that sees these signs will not pass away. . . .” This is not the way to interpret the Bible.

[Edit: Provide a cite for quoted material or delete it.]

The cite was in my original post.

 

[Saint of Circumstance]

Actually, the premise is very simple. If the eschatological events have already occurred, you should be able to TELL US THE NAME of the "man of sin" and his false prophet. you should be able to describe the mark of the beast in detail & tell us who issued it. you should be able to tell us when all green grass was burned up, & when all life in the seas died, as well as many other things prophesied to occur.

But so far, you're batting ZERO in the "proof" dept.

LOL,
I named the Man of Sin Roby, you just don't like it. And you have presented a grand total of ZERO scriptures supporting your claim that Paul's man of Sin has a "False Prophet" related to him in any way Biblcially. ZERO

All you have is imagination, gesswork and adding to scripture that which can not be found in it's pages.

And again untill you provide PROOF that ALL FLESH SAW Yahweh Kindle a fire that burned EVERY GREEN TREE and EVERY FACE from north to south at the time of the 6th century BC Babylonain Exile (Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5), your demands of me remain laughable.

It's actually comical how you can demand a certain PROOF from others to support their view that you are unable to povide to support yours..

Who does that?

 

[Saint of Circumstance]

So, the Great Commission, "Go ye into all the world . . . " does not apply to us?

John 13:35 doesn't apply to us either?

The question is, can the ORIGINAL AUDIENCE be completely disceted & removed from ANY application?

This is the basic futurist contention (and their basic dilema)

To claim a large portion of the New Testament had ZERO application to the very people the letters were addressed and first delivered to, is a Bold claim, and one that I have seen no scriptural support for in my 15 years of debating eschatology.

 

[TCassidy]

The question is, can the ORIGINAL AUDIENCE be completely disceted & removed from ANY application?

No, that is not the question. And the fact you think that is the question proves you don't understand either the question or the answer.

This is the basic futurist contention (and their basic dilema)

No, it is not. You can't just make this stuff up as you go along.

To claim a large portion of the New Testament had ZERO application to the very people the letters were addressed and first delivered to, is a Bold claim, and one that I have seen no scriptural support for in my 15 years of debating eschatology.

Nobody has made such a claim, and I have never seen such a silly claim in all my 60 years of discussing eschatology.