Preterism remains false - Did Jesus lie? NO!

[robycop3]

If futurism is true, how come no christian church taught it till Edward Irving got it from the Jesuits in 1825? Were they all wrong?
Waldensians taught that the papacy was Antichrist from about AD 1260 when the pope showed his full persecuting powers. They suffered sever tribulation for that.
Jan Hus wrote to the English Lollards many letters referring to the papal Antichrist. The Lollards also believed the same. Hus (Huss) was burn't at Constance, many Lollards suffered the same. Tyndale was Garroted and burnt., Lollard John Brown was burnt at Ashford less than 20 miles from here. A number were burnt at Canterbury and some were starved to death in the Westgate Towers in Canterbury. In Wye, there was a dungeon called the Lollard Hole where Lollards were kept till they were burn't John Brown himself was stood on hot coals at Wye, till his soles were burn to the bone then he had to walk to the place of his execution.

After the reformation, Luther taught that the Pope was Antichrist. Calvin wrote that if you consider the claims of Christ, and then the claims of the pope, one could see he was Antichrist though he were a ten year old boy. it seems a ten year old boy in Calvin's day could see more clearly than many so called theologians today.

Presbyterians knew the pope was antichrist, as did baptists,

The pope sits in the temple of God claiming to be God. Jesus said the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat/ But they didn't teach Moses' doctrines. The pope sits in Jesus' seat but doesn't teach Christ's doctrine.

Don't worry there is no chance that you will be burnt by Rome as you are teaching Jesuit doctrines.

MMRRPP! WRONG!

The AC will be ONE MAN. And the temple of God to which Paul was referring will be in Jerusalem.

And are you forgetting the jeezits made preterism popular? they relied upon people not knowing history.

No pope ever had a miracle-working false prophet as his deputy. No pope was ever cast alive into the lake of fire. No pope ever gathered an army to fight against Jesus. No pope ever issued any marka the beast. On & on. for antichrist crtieria not fulfilled by any pope.

 

[robycop3]

More reasons why the first part of the Olivet Prophecy cannot be future/

1. Jesus said warned against any that said he would come in those days, in the desert or in some secret place. Josephus tells of many who at that time claimed to be the Messiah. Matthew:24:23-27

2. Jesus said that Jerusalem will be destroyed and the Jews who survived that tribulation woul be led captive among all nations. (Luke 21:24) This could not be the same time as the coming of Christ for at that time the Jews will not be led away to all nations. In AD 70 they were made slaves and led away some to the mines in Egypt as Moses said they would return to Egypt.

3. Jesus said no one would know the time of his coming but he gave a sign for the soon coming fall of Jerusalem and the temple. Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies, that is the AOD. When n would that be, during that generation still living. Jerusalem to be destroyed, sign Jerusalem surrounded by armies. The coming of Christ, no sign.

4. The sign for the destruction of Jerusalem, Jerusalem surrounded by armies, but Christ's coming as a thief in the night, like lightning , no warning. Men and women will go about their ordinary business, buying, selling, marrying then Christ will suddenly come.

5 Before the fall of Jerusalem the Christians in Jerusalem and Judea were to flee to the mountains. Then there was time to flee, but when Jesus comes we will not flee, but caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Before the fall of Jerusalem the believers scattered, but when Christ comes we will be gathered. A complete contrast.

Sorry, Captain, but those events simply HAVEN'T YET HAPPENED, after the destruction of J & the temple, which was part of the "days of vengeance", not the return of Jesus. You cannot prove otherwise.

 

[robycop3]

You futurists change you mind on your prophecies as much as the JWs do on theirs. Firstly you said it was not the generation that Jesus spoke to but the generation that saw the fig tree bud, 1948 as they saw it, then when that failed it was the six day war and now that has failed you come up with another idea. That can't fail till Christ comes then it will be shown to be false. These are not the only false prophecies of the dispies. The Irvingites, the first dispies taught the the rapture would be in 1833. Not a good record.

i haven't changed a thing, nor have I ever set a date for the parousia. OTOH, the PRETERIST has the burden of proof. The pret needsta show us the prophesied eschatological events have indeed already occurred, or his doctrine remains phony as a Ford Corvette. So far, the prets' record equals that of the Cleveland Browns thru 12/5/2017.

 

[robycop3]

Roby, We are still waiting for your understanding of Daniel 9.

I've posted it once, & am NOT gonna repeat it.

 

[robycop3]

Actually it hasn't been proven.

Show me in Matthew where its talking about the whole jewish race, if its been proven.

The Olivet Discourse.

That's obvious because the eschatological events haven't yet happened.

 

[robycop3]

Yes he was correct, yes everything happened. And yes it happened within that generation.

Just like he said.

No, it DIDN'T! You CANNOT prove it has!

You CANNOT -

tell us the name of the antichrist, nor that of his false prophet
describe the marka the beast
tell us when all life in the seas died, or when all green grass was burned up
when the AOD was committed
or when Jesus returned in the manner HE HIMSELF said.

So, preterism remains phony as a Ford Corvette!

 

[robycop3]

No he doesn’t, he just steals it from others: http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/preterism.pdf

that article itself contains a false doctrine - THE KJVO MYTH. That dactrine is as false as preterism.

 

[David Kent]

tell us the name of the antichrist, nor that of his false prophet
describe the marka the beast
tell us when all life in the seas died, or when all green grass was burned up
when the AOD was committed
or when Jesus returned in the manner HE HIMSELF said.

I am not a preterist. I have told you that already.

I have not seen your post on Daniel 9, Please can you give us a link? I don't know why you don't repeat it you repeat everything else olver and over.

 

[David Kent]

The Plymouth Brethren claimed they were a return to new testament theology. The dispies do as well. You could google: Dispensationalism a return

 

[prophecy70]

And are you forgetting the jeezits made preterism popular? they relied upon people's not knowing history.

David what's a jeezit?

 

[prophecy70]

The Olivet Discourse.

That's obvious because the eschatological events haven't yet happened.

Well where else?

 

[David Kent]

that article itself contains a false doctrine - THE KJVO MYTH. That dactrine is as false as preterism.

Most of the dispy futurists I know, apart from on this site, are KJO, see online baptist, you will get thrown off if you use anything but KJV, or if you persistently oppose Dispensationalism*. There are some on BB who have been banned from there.

*Or should it be called Dispy Sensationalism?

 

[robycop3]

I am not a preterist. I have told you that already.

Well, for not being a preterist, you sure do defend some of their doctrines a lot! But I'll take your word for it - for now.

I have not seen your post on Daniel 9, Please can you give us a link? I don't know why you don't repeat it you repeat everything else olver and over.

First, what I repeat is the MAIN POINT of preterism - Prets say all the eschatological events have already been fulfilled, but not one of'em has presented one quark of PROOF! Talk is cheap; anyone can say anything, but SAYING it does not make it SO! I've been an amateur historian for many years, & the events prets SAY have already occurred are totally-absent from history! Thus, I demand they PROVE those events have already occurred, or simply admit they haven't, and admit they were deceived. (No disgrace to be deceived by Satan; I once was, almost abandoning my Baptist faith for Herbie Armstrong's "Worldwide Church of God". Praise be to the HOLY SPIRIT for opening my eyes in time!) And I want other Christians to see why preterism is so hollow; it's a doctrine its proselytes CANNOT PROVE!

Now, I'm gonna make an exception for you & post my view of Daniel 9, & in more detail than I did before.

I believe we've all seen many of the umpteen explanations of the 69 weex, or 483 years, so we can dispense with that. (I believe Jesus was born C. 6 BC,Explanation in another forum.) We know His ministry was about 3.5 years long.

Let's consider this verse: Dan. 9:26“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Please note the PEOPLE of that coming prince shall perform the destruction. There's NOTHING saying that prince would be among those people at that time. Some people wanna say Titus was that prince, as his father Vespasian was then Caesar, & Titus succeeded him. But Titus did NOT fulfill many of the criteria for the "beast". He did not overthrow 3 other rulers to become Caesar. He did not receive a deadly head wound & survive it. He didn't have a false prophet as a deputy. He worshipped the Roman pantheon of gods/goddesses, while the 'beast' won't worship anyone or anything; he will only demand to be worshipped. He did not set up his statue in the temple. (The temple was destroyed against his orders while he was tending to other matters during the battle.) And, of course, Titus was NOT cast alive into gehenna! He died of a fever, in fronta witnesses.

(I believe the beast, antichrist, man of sin, & the prince of Daniel 9:26 will all be the same man.)

As for the "flood", I believe it was the flood of Romans who marched thru Judea. And there were other towns & cities of the Jews desolated during that war.

if you have any more questions for me about Dan. 9, feel freeta ask!

 

[robycop3]

David what's a jeezit?

My slang for jesuits

 

[robycop3]

Most of the dispy futurists I know, apart from on this site, are KJO, see online baptist, you will get thrown off if you use anything but KJV, or if you persistently oppose Dispensationalism*. There are some on BB who have been banned from there.

*Or should it be called Dispy Sensationalism?

I have been a dedicated opponent of the KJVO myth even longer than I have been of preterism. It's just another man-made false doctrine, used by Satan to create strife & dissent between and within congregations. It doesn't have one blip of SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT. I have posted the man-made origin of the current version of that myth in the "Bible versions/translations" sub-forum here.

And, BTW, just as you say you're not a pret, I am not a duspy. I believe in three dispensations:

Old Covenant
New Covenant
The world to come
And that's it!

 

[David Kent]

David what's a jeezit?

He's one, they are eschatological stargazers, he also he writes in tongues. .

 

[David Kent]

Futurism was founded by the Jesuits Cardinal Belarmine and Francesco Ribera, confirmed by Priest Michael Walpole, expanded by Jesuit Manuel Lacunza, brought into Protestantism by Edward Irving who then expanded it into Dispesationalism when he first preached on it Christmas Day 1825 according to an article he wrote in his Morning Watch Magazine. Apart from the first protestant to teach futurism according to his claim, he was a Scottish Calvinist Presbyterian and a Pentecostal.

 

[prophecy70]

Let's consider this verse: Dan. 9:26“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Please note the PEOPLE of that coming prince shall perform the destruction. There's NOTHING saying that prince would be among those people at that time. Some people wanna say Titus was that prince, as his father Vespasian was then Caesar, & Titus succeeded him. But Titus did NOT fulfill many of the criteria for the "beast". He did not overthrow 3 other rulers to become Caesar. He did not receive a deadly head wound & survive it. He didn't have a false prophet as a deputy. He worshipped the Roman pantheon of gods/goddesses, while the 'beast' won't worship anyone or anything; he will only demand to be worshipped. He did not set up his statue in the temple. (The temple was destroyed against his orders while he was tending to other matters during the battle.) And, of course, Titus was NOT cast alive into gehenna! He died of a fever, in fronta witnesses.

(I believe the beast, antichrist, man of sin, & the prince of Daniel 9:26 will all be the same man.)

As for the "flood", I believe it was the flood of Romans who marched thru Judea. And there were other towns & cities of the Jews desolated during that war.

if you have any more questions for me about Dan. 9, feel freeta ask!

Where is the beast in in Daniel 9:26?
So the 483 years are past?
but the rest are not? How can it be a 490 year prophecy then?
You see a lot more in Daniel 9:26 that is written.

ut Titus did NOT fulfill many of the criteria for the "beast". He did not overthrow 3 other rulers to become Caesar. He did not receive a deadly head wound & survive it. He didn't have a false prophet as a deputy. He worshipped the Roman pantheon of gods/goddesses, while the 'beast' won't worship anyone or anything; he will only demand to be worshipped. He did not set up his statue in the temple. (The temple was destroyed against his orders while he was tending to other matters during the battle.) And, of course, Titus was NOT cast alive into gehenna! He died of a fever, in fronta witnesses.

All that from that one verse?

Some people wanna say Titus was that prince, as his father Vespasian was then Caesar, & Titus succeeded him.

wouldn't that make him a prince at the time?

 

[prophecy70]

Well, for not being a preterist, you sure do defend some of their doctrines a lot! But I'll take your word for it - for now.

He does not defend preterist doctrines.
He believes the pope is the antichrist, totally different then preterists

 

[David Kent]

;

Now, I'm gonna make an exception for you & post my view of Daniel 9, & in more detail than I did before.

I believe we've all seen many of the umpteen explanations of the 69 weex, or 483 years, so we can dispense with that. (I believe Jesus was born C. 6 BC,Explanation in another forum.) We know His ministry was about 3.5 years long.

Birth of Jesus between -8 and -4 so more or less agreed on that. However the discussion on the 69 weeks is important. Scripture gives the complete answer. The seventy weeks were to run from the time Cyrus published the proclamation (given by God) It was not his decree, it was God's, Cyrus was the one to send it forth. From the going forth of that decree, to the coming of Messiah was 69 weeks. That was completed at His baptism when John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God" Matt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Jesus came as Messiah at his baptism, announced by John, God, and the disciples.
Recognised by the disciples
John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

let's consider this verse: Dan. 9:26“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Yes lets. But you miss out the most important part of the prophecy which you have ignored otherwise you could not say that.

• Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,1). to finish the transgression, 2), and to make an end of sins, 3). and to make reconciliation for iniquity, 4). and to bring in everlasting righteousness, 5). and to seal up the vision and prophecy, 6. and to anoint the most Holy.

These six points were all fulfilled in Christ, If you don't believe that tell me how each one was or will be fulfilled?

If you can answer this we can move on.