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Preterism remains false - Did Jesus lie? NO!

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robycop3

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OK so if understand you, you are accepting that half the final week has been fulfilled we just disagree about the last ½ week. So what do you think is going to happen during the last ½ week?

I believe the antichrist/man of sin/beast will come to power, & all the eschatological events upta the return of Jesus will occur. Jesus will return at the end of that time.

The coming of that man to power will be the budding of the fig tree in Jesus' analogy.
 

robycop3

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I am not sure how many of these points you answered, I think it was just number 2 where we disagreed. and number 6 which was a possible,

Shall we discuss these in order? No 1). to finish the transgression,

I believe the Jews of old Jerusalem were held to account for the murders of many righteous people. Jesus said the Jews of His human generation would be held accountable for the murders of all righteous up til that time, from Abel onward. And, of course, the Jewish leadership of Jerusalem added the murder of Jesus Himself to their sins.

But Jesus, by His authority and by His sacrifice, gave a way of forgiveness of all their sins to those people who would come to Him in belief, repentance, and obedience.

And another transgression was the FALSE WORSHIP of that time, with most of the priesthood, Pharisees, & Sanhedrin being corrupt. (There were exceptions, of course, such as Zacharias & possibly Gamaliel) Jesus replaced that system with the New Covenant. While the false worship continued, & continues to this very day, the "official" & CORRECT form of worship is according to the New Covenant, which Jesus established & sealed with His own death.
 

robycop3

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Then its not a 490 prophecy.

Daniel says “Seventy weeks (490 years) are determined upon your people. NOT 2000+ years.

So what is exactly as written?
When I was in school, 486.5 + 3.5 = 490. Maybe YOU had "common core" math.

NOTHING in Scripture says there couldn't be a gap in those years. And there's no argument that Jesus' ministry was about 3.5 years long. After that, He was "cut off".(The Hebrew word here is 'karath', which means "cut off, removed".) the next event of daniel's prophecy is the destruction of J & the temple.

Your argument about proving is irrelevant because we don't believe the bible according to Robycop3.

You act as if you don't believe the Bible according to ITSELF! It's quite-obvious there are many prophesied events yet to occur, while you pretend they already have occurred!
 

prophecy70

Active Member
Robycop3 said:
NOTHING in Scripture says there couldn't be a gap in those years.

Alright i'm going to add a 3000 year gap between days 4 and 5 in the creation as well. Nothing says I can't.
 

David Kent

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Are you SURE, or are you merely GUESSING? Scripture sez it WILL happen, & I believe GOD'S word over that of men. I think you're just guessing, trying to defend the false "pope = beast" doctrine.

If you call the teaching that the pope is AC is false teaching, then you are saying that every non Catholic church from the Waldensians when they published their treatise on Antichrist in about AD 1200 till about 1820, was teaching a false doctrine. It is you that is teaching a modern doctrine in these last days, and we know what Paul said about that in 1 Timothy 4:1

Are you SURE, or are you merely GUESSING? Scripture sez it WILL happen, & I believe GOD'S word over that of men. I think you're just guessing, trying to defend the false "pope = beast" doctrine.

No it is you who is guessing. The futurist teaching is guessing. Historicism is comparing scripture which is fulfilled and the history of its fulfillment. Your futurist belief is all guesswork, like evolution neither have been observed so you can teach what you like.
Yes, he IS. He's the prince of Dan. 9:26.
That is just guesswork, no basis in scripture.

No, Jesus was "cut off" after 3.5 years. Scripture sez nothing about the remaining years being fulfilled by the apostles.To say the apostles' ministry fulfilled the allottment of those years is quite a stretch, especially since the ministries of several of them went on much longer than 3.5 years! But Jesus DID say the great trib would be cut short lest all flesh perish. Thus, its allotted time is those 3.5 years.
I can't understand your reasoning here. it seems to differ from all other futurist teaching that I have encountered and that is the GT will be 7 years and is the last seven years of the 490.

Jesus said unless these days should be shortened, he didn't mention 3½years, But the days were shortened in the Roman war allowing Christians to flee the tribulation.
 

David Kent

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Alright i'm going to add a 3000 year gap between days 4 and 5 in the creation as well. Nothing says I can't.
My Dad said of futurists, "The Futurists say 'scripture is silent on this' which means. they can't understand the scripture, so they can teach what they like,"
 

robycop3

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PROOF. YOU HAVE NO PROOF

Oh, REALLY?

WHO ELSE COULD THAT PRINCE BE?

Scripture doesn't say "A" prince - it sez "THE" prince. Therefore, it's about a particular prince who's gonna be prominent in Jewish history after his people destroy J & the temple, which were then future events.

And let us not forget the 11th horn of the beast of Daniel 7, that arose among its original 10 horns & uprooted three of them.
 

robycop3

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If you call the teaching that the pope is AC is false teaching, then you are saying that every non Catholic church from the Waldensians when they published their treatise on Antichrist in about AD 1200 till about 1820, was teaching a false doctrine. It is you that is teaching a modern doctrine in these last days, and we know what Paul said about that in 1 Timothy 4:1

While many popes have been antichrists, so have many non-popes and non-catholix. But NONE has yet been "THE" particular antichrist. There have also been many "men of sin" since there have been men, but NONE has been "THE" man of sin mentioned by paul & others.

And I'm not ruling out that a pope or other high RC official could become the false prophet, the "beast from the earth". Rev. 17 indicated the RCC will be closely involved with the "man of sin" at first, but that he will turn on them when their usefulness to him is over.



No it is you who is guessing. The futurist teaching is guessing. Historicism is comparing scripture which is fulfilled and the history of its fulfillment. Your futurist belief is all guesswork, like evolution neither have been observed so you can teach what you like.

Big difference there. The eschatological events are prophesied IN SCRIPTURE, and Scripture, as originally written, is always 100% right. There was no human indication that J & the temple were gonna be destroyed when jesus prophesied they would be, but it happened. same with the "days of vengeance". At the time Jesus prophesied them, the Jewish political & religious leadership was in thick with the local Roman rulers, such as Valerius Gratus(who appointed Caiaphas as High Priest, & who was succeeded by Pontius Pilate) and, of course, Pilate himself.

That is just guesswork, no basis in scripture.

PLENTY of basis, from Daniel 7 thru Rev. 13.

Care to name another candidate for the prince of Daniel 9:26?


I can't understand your reasoning here. it seems to differ from all other futurist teaching that I have encountered and that is the GT will be 7 years and is the last seven years of the 490.

Why not? The beginning of Jesus' ministry marked the beginning of the 484th year, & this ministry only lasted 3.5 years, leaving the other 3.5 years to yet be fulfilled. Remember the enormity of the plagues of the trib, especially as set forth in Rev. 16. No flesh could survive 3.5 years of THOSE plagues, let alone SEVEN YEARS of them! With all life in the seas destroyed, & all green grass burned up, almost all the animals & fish man depends on for food will be gone as well, as will wheat, barley, rice, etc. which are grasses. I believe Jesus will end the trib before man's food stores run out, but still, many will starve. War, famine, & disease will be rampant. But Jesus will come & save man from extermination.

Jesus said unless these days should be shortened, he didn't mention 3½years, But the days were shortened in the Roman war allowing Christians to flee the tribulation.

No, that was NOT the great trib! There have been MANY worse events! You cannot deny THAT![/QUOTE]
 

robycop3

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Roby, you are also avoiding the other 4 points that were determined to occur in the 70 weeks.

You wished to discussed them one at a time, so I'm honoring your request. If you're ready to move on, please tell me which one you wanna tackle next.
 

robycop3

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My Dad said of futurists, "The Futurists say 'scripture is silent on this' which means. they can't understand the scripture, so they can teach what they like,"

My late dad said, "The basis of pseudo-Christian cults & false doctrines is man's ADDING NEW MEANINGS to Scripture insteada believing what it actually sez."
 

prophecy70

Active Member
Oh, REALLY?

WHO ELSE COULD THAT PRINCE BE?

Scripture doesn't say "A" prince - it sez "THE" prince. Therefore, it's about a particular prince who's gonna be prominent in Jewish history after his people destroy J & the temple, which were then future events.

And let us not forget the 11th horn of the beast of Daniel 7, that arose among its original 10 horns & uprooted three of them.

Titus. Someone actually relevant to the people of him.
 

David Kent

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I believe the antichrist/man of sin/beast will come to power, & all the eschatological events upta the return of Jesus will occur. Jesus will return at the end of that time.

The coming of that man to power will be the budding of the fig tree in Jesus' analogy.

Nonsense, Jesus said that when they saw the fig tree and all the treas spring to life then you know that all the things that he said would happen which was the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem, which he compared with the springing to life of all the trees, allowing the Christians to flee the city. That is the analogy.
 

David Kent

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Oh, REALLY?

WHO ELSE COULD THAT PRINCE BE?

Scripture doesn't say "A" prince - it sez "THE" prince. Therefore, it's about a particular prince who's gonna be prominent in Jewish history after his people destroy J & the temple, which were then future events.

And let us not forget the 11th horn of the beast of Daniel 7, that arose among its original 10 horns & uprooted three of them.

The prince could be none other than Titus You make a great deal of this prince and say what he is going to do.
But the scripture says nothing about him except his people will destroy the temple Remember that the prince is not the subject of the verse, It is his people who are the subject. If you say that from scripture you get anything more than that, you are willfully adding to scripture.

Yes you would want to forget that? You are like the JW's who have a few proof texts and when you go outside them, they are lost for explanation.

I suppose you are hoping I will forget that you haven'e answered my previous question '

Shall we discuss these in order?
No 1). to finish the transgression, I tried to make it easy for you by splitting them to one at a time, or is that something else you will prefer to forget.
 
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