Preterists Cannot Prove Their Assertions !

Full does not use a literal method of rightly dividing Gods word. in 1 Cor 6:1-3, Just to give and example, Christ said that we would help judge the world and angels. If that has already happened then why wasn't Gods elect notified? Oh, it happened in 70 AD.

 

Judgment comes from God to all who are still now In Adam though!

 

They see the AD 70 as the second coming of Jesus to judge reprobate Israel, and yet, Paul stated that God was not finished with her yet, and how much more glorious will it be when the Jews, the natural branches, are set back into salvation?
Also, the second coming will be the judgment against all of the kingdoms of Mankind, destroying mans world order in order to set up the Kingdom of Christ! That never happened yet...

 

I've stayed out of this so far - only the watchers will be informed, the antipreterists will only be hardened.

I hope all would agree that AD 70 saw the judgment of the defiant & unrepentant Israelites for rejecting their Messiah, and the Apostolic Gospel offering free & full forgiveness & salvation. "This generation" perished as Jesus warned.

True, believing Israel comprised many thousands including -
the faithful remnant such as Zechariah & Elisabeth, Simeon, Anna, Mary, Joseph, the Shepherds;
the crowds who responded to John's preaching & baptism, who subsequently followed Jesus;
those baptised by Jesus & his disciples - many more than baptised by John;
3,000 converted at Pentecost, & 5,000 soon after, with continuous additions;
a large number of priests;
those of the dispersion who heard the Gospel from Paul & the 12 Apostles & other missionaries;
All these forming the New Covenant Church.

Israel as a nation was rejected, whereas Israel as a people was never rejected, nor could bein the eternal purposes of God. The church, which soon included Gentiles became God's Holy Nation in Christ. Compare God's conditional promise (IF) in Exodus 19 with the secure status of believers in Christ in 1 Peter 2.

Paul in Rom. 11 does not prophesy a future for Israel as a nation but salvation 7 "regrafting" for those who do not continue in unbelief. He has already expalined who are Israel in preceding chapters. And the future tense in Rom. 11:26 is because it is a quote from Isaiah, not because there will be a future deliverer from Zion. And of course many Jews would be saved in the future (from the time of Paul writing) as they turned to Christ.

There is no prophecy by Jesus or his Apostles of a reestablishment of a Jewish/Israelite nation. The "holy nation" was established by the saving work of their Saviour. As Zechariah explained -

2:3 While the angel who was speaking to me was leaving, another angel came to meet him 4 and said to him: ‘Run, tell that young man, “Jerusalem will be a city without walls because of the great number of people and animals in it. 5 And I myself will be a wall of fire around it,” declares the Lord, “and I will be its glory within.”
......
10 ‘Shout and be glad, Daughter Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,’ declares the Lord. 11 ‘Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you. 12 The Lord will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be still before the Lord, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.’​

Notice the oft-repeated Covenant relationship - "11 ‘Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you."

Jer. 11:1 This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 ‘Listen to the terms of this covenant and tell them to the people of Judah and to those who live in Jerusalem. 3 Tell them that this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: “Cursed is the one who does not obey the terms of this covenant – 4 the terms I commanded your ancestors when I brought them out of Egypt, out of the iron-smelting furnace.” I said, “Obey me and do everything I command you, and you will be my people, and I will be your God. 5 Then I will fulfil the oath I swore to your ancestors, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey”– the land you possess today.’​

In the New Covenant Gospel, Jerusalem is a heavenly city, of which all believers are citizens.

 

In this present Age, both Jews and Gentiles saved make up spiritual Israel, but at time of the second coming, Kingdom age ushered in, and national Israel shall be reborn again unto God at that time!

 

Zech prophecy was for Israel to be reborn unto God, and that did NOT happen in 1948!

 

Ezekiel was prophesying during the exile to those who had lost land, city and temple.

The prophecy was fulfilled for its hearers by the return. The perfect fulfilment needed the incarnation of Messiah and his saving work, and his ascension to the throne the LORD, David's promised throne.

The Gospel is the fulfilment of God's promises to the Patriarchs. Perfect fulfilment awaits his return to establish the New Heaven and New Earth.

 

Hi Steve - welcome to the forum. I hold to what is called "partial preterism" and an amillennial understanding that considers that the present age is referred to in Rev. 20. Jesus will return at the end of the age for resurrection & judgment.

Jesus assured his Apostles that the prophecies concerning Messiah in the OT were fulfilled in himself. The people of God would comprise the redeemed from all nations, as promised to Abram in Gen. 12, & the Patriarchs. Peter takes up this Covenant in Acts 3, as he warns the Israelites about not listening to the Prophet. They are in danger of being completely cut off. Acts 3:17-26

The language is that of judgments in OT times - see Isa. 13 concerning the destruction of Babylon by the Medes.

No. We don't follow a literal interpretation of OT prophecy but we see it, As Hebrews tells us, as being "copies & shadows" of the New Covenant. See Heb. 8.

The events prophesied are real events, often given in figurative terms. We need to understand the circumstances of the prophecy, & to see a relevance in the life & ministry of Jesus, & further fulfilment in the Gospel, first to Israel & the new formed church, then to the Gentiles as the Gospel went out to all nations.

God's dealings with Israel as a nation ended in AD 70. His Gospel welcome to Jews & other Israelites continues down the Gospel age.

 

You are wasting your time. Prets redefine things like generation and throne of David. If they started actually defining them as scripture does their doctrine falls apart.

 

From the Preterist perspective, it's quite obvious that these events have occurred. Jesus quoted from the OT in Matt. 24:29-31. The prophets often used symbolic language to describe events. The disciples were familiar with this "language", and understood it to be symbolic and not literal. Consider how Acts 2 quotes Joel 2. Yet, the sun was not turned into darkness nor the moon into blood.

Regarding the 8-month break - Nobody in Jerusalem had any idea how long the Roman armies were going to be gone. For all they knew, the Romans could come back in a few days. To make a long answer short, the Dispensationalist interpretation is weak and cannot be supported by Scripture. We can go back and forth all day on this, because each of us are fully convinced that their view is correct and the opposing view is ridiculous. It really comes down to how one interprets Scripture, and each of us are sure we interpret correctly.

 

Not quite sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting that the Jews are judged differently from Gentiles? In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, slave nor free.

 

From the Preterist perspective, those terms have been redefined by the Dispensationalists. As I mentioned to Roby earlier, it's largely a matter of interpretation - especially as to what is "literal" vs symbolic. Good thing our salvation doesn't depend upon our eschatological view .