Hi Yeshua1,
No. Because you must die in sanctifying Grace (1 Cor 13 Grace). That’s the objective answer.
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Prevenient Grace - Catholic View
- Thread starter LaGrange
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Hi Yeshua1,
No. Because you must die in sanctifying Grace (1 Cor 13 Grace). That’s the objective answer.
Hi Utilyan,
I agree subjectively because God can do what he wants. He can save people outside the normal means which is through Baptism initially. My answer to Yeshua1 is that the normal means is through Baptism and not just believing. As I’ve said, Faith must be present but it’s Baptism that saves so, normally, without it, you cannot be saved.
There is no final call, as either they have accepted and received Lord Jesus to save them or not!
We are fully justified by God the very moment receive jesus as our Lord, so no additional gracing needed, as that would make the Cross redundant!
We do not hold to Baptismal regeneration, as the NT example would be get saved and then water baptized, as Jesus saves period!
Same as saying there is no final judgement. Judgement belongs to God. His is final. The final call is made by him not YOUR acceptance or refusal.
God already knows who will be saved!
God creates now as he sees fit, God does not worship plans.
Hi Everyone,
I have redone my notes and am ready to post my notes on Cooperating Grace. I am waiting for a copyright permission because I am quoting extensively from a book. If I don’t get it, my explanation will be much limited. I should know in a couple of weeks hopefully. I will put it on a new thread. Thanks. LaGrange.
I have redone my notes and am ready to post my notes on Cooperating Grace. I am waiting for a copyright permission because I am quoting extensively from a book. If I don’t get it, my explanation will be much limited. I should know in a couple of weeks hopefully. I will put it on a new thread. Thanks. LaGrange.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
God already knows whom He will save.
Yes, as he is the One who chose to save them!
Save from what? In Calvinism God's the one who set the fire in the first place.
Its like if a man threw your children in a lake to drown and then "SAVED" half of them.
The Emperor has no clothes, EVIL flat out evil. No way to sugar coat Calvinist flawed idea of God.
Nothing remotely heroic about Calvinist idea of God.
A NON-Calvinist can tell you thousands of reasons why God is better, AND BE GLAD TO DO IT.
Calvinist can't name one reason their version of God is any better than Godzilla, or even fill in the blank, They would be "offended and appalled".
There is nothing new from the pagan notion "God likes you then you are saved, God hates you then you are damned" Brings absolutely nothing new worth teaching to the table.
It is completely awful in every way, Its more believable that Calvinist version of God was done to mock and insult God.
The Calvinist God is the One of the Bible!
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
God does not save any except His children, So this idea of God drowning His kids and killing them is blasphemous.
Jesus in John 8 says 'you are of your father the devil', so those who drown are the devil's children, not God's.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Who does Jesus save? His people, only them. If your not saved, then your not His people.
And if your not with Christ, then you are against Him and God, so they are shown to not be His people.
If your of God, then you hear what Christ speaks.
If your of God, then you believe in Him whom God sent, your not willing to come to Christ, if your are not of God..
john 5
37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
To have God's word abiding in you (means in your heart as He has made you born again), means the Holy Spirit is teaching you about the Christ, meaning you will believe.
And if your not with Christ, then you are against Him and God, so they are shown to not be His people.
If your of God, then you hear what Christ speaks.
If your of God, then you believe in Him whom God sent, your not willing to come to Christ, if your are not of God..
john 5
37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
To have God's word abiding in you (means in your heart as He has made you born again), means the Holy Spirit is teaching you about the Christ, meaning you will believe.
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Save from what?
You believe it all hangs on GOD's choice. He hated them first. He hated the reprobate since before they even existed.
In Calvinism only real danger is GOD. He does the drowning. And the drowning is done "for his glory".
We hold that sinner is fully justified thru faith in the finished work of Jesus for us, while Rome sees us needing to co operate with God in salvation process to when we can merit it!
The"'God": that you rail against here is not the one we Calvinists know!Save from what?
You believe it all hangs on GOD's choice. He hated them first. He hated the reprobate since before they even existed.
In Calvinism only real danger is GOD. He does the drowning. And the drowning is done "for his glory".
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