Proof ALL does not mean all men

[Dave G]

The whole book of Romans is addressed to the Jews.

" For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 if by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them." ( Romans 11:13-14 ).

 

[Barry Johnson]

But did they have ears to HEAR. There is a difference. Deaf people have ears but they can't hear.

Satan Blinds the minds of unbelievers. Think about it . if people are born ' blind ' ,satan and God's hardening and Blinding is a little redundant. Kinda like putting blind folds on the already blind .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Those verses don't actually support your position.

Yes they do .See i win lol

 

[Reformed1689]

Then you're a Calvinist that believes we have to believe first in order to be saved. Most Calvinist claim that Salvation comes before belief. I'm glad you answered correctly.
MB

Again this shows you have a severe misunderstanding of Calvinism and the Ordo Salutis.

 

[MB]

" For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 if by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them." ( Romans 11:13-14 ).

Notice he is speaking about the Gentiles to provoke to emulation them which are of his flesh the Jews.this is not to say Gentiles were not present. After all Paul spent a lot of time in Rome it was his home town. At the same time he was an apostle to the Gentiles he was obviously very concerned about his Jewish brothers
MB

 

[MB]

Again this shows you have a severe misunderstanding of Calvinism and the Ordo Salutis.

So are you admitting that Belief comes before Salvation?
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

So are you admitting that Belief comes before Salvation?
MB

I think we define terms differently.

 

[Reformed1689]

Satan Blinds the minds of unbelievers. Think about it . if people are born ' blind ' ,satan and God's hardening and Blinding is a little redundant. Kinda like putting blind folds on the already blind .

Wow you give an awful lot of power to Satan that the Bible doesn't say he has.

 

[Barry Johnson]

Again this shows you have a severe misunderstanding of Calvinism and the Ordo Salutis.

Calvinisms ordo Salutis is to have a system that Starts with a faulty view with the T and then repeats the same conclusion 4 different ways with ULIP . Leading to perhaps the most bizarre doctrine within Christendom ' regeneration precedes faith ' . Because we've been impressed and seduced by so scholars and theologians of old, with beards , its like frogs in boiling water ,who have been acclimatised and led thinking all is perfectly normal and ' orthodox ' .

 

[Barry Johnson]

Wow you give an awful lot of power to Satan that the Bible doesn't say he has.

Are you saying Satan does not blind the minds of those rejecting the Gospel?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Wow you give an awful lot of power to Satan that the Bible doesn't say he has.

2cor
3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Revmitchell]

Non functional ears which cant hear what God says is what GOD gave them.
Romans 11:8
Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”

But ears that hear God are only for the elect, eyes that can see with spiritual understanding of God's plan are only for the elect, God did this to the non elect, to make them blind and deaf to Him. Meaning God is not aiding them to salvation, without which help they will not be saved, as God did not choose them for salvation, they are not elect.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

You do realize the context of those who do not have ears to hear is the nation of Israel only. Right?

 

[MB]

I think we define terms differently.

I understand never the less I can always hope.
Peace
MB

 

[MB]

Wow you give an awful lot of power to Satan that the Bible doesn't say he has.

So you do not think Satan is powerful. He is the ruler of this world. He is powerful enough to deceive the whole world with a lie even those he deceives are the elect. that is of course the Jews. To this day they deny Isiah 53 and forbid it's reading because it describes there Messiah in His 1st coming which matches the life of Christ perfectly.
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

Are you saying Satan does not blind the minds of those rejecting the Gospel?

He obviously does 2 Corinthians. But you seem to be taking that to a whole other level giving him power to do things he has no power to do. He cannot do anything without it being allowed.

 

[Reformed1689]

So you do not think Satan is powerful. He is the ruler of this world. He is powerful enough to deceive the whole world with a lie even those he deceives are the elect. that is of course the Jews. To this day they deny Isiah 53 and forbid it's reading because it describes there Messiah in His 1st coming which matches the life of Christ perfectly.
MB

Yeah that's not what I said.

 

[MB]

Yeah that's not what I said.

God and Satan are devout enemies. No where did God ever give Satan permission to even breathe. He may allow certain events but never gives permission. God cannot sin against Him Self.
sort of like sin if you must but He does not permit it
MB

 

[Reformed1689]

God and Satan are devout enemies. No where did God ever give Satan permission to even breathe. He may allow certain events but never gives permission. God cannot sin against Him Self.
sort of like sin if you must but He does not permit it
MB

If God did not allow for something to happen, it would not happen. Obviously God gave Satan permission to live, He created Satan. He also gave Satan permission to do terrible things to Job but limited what he was allowed to do. So Scripture goes against you here.

 

[Dave G]

Notice he is speaking about the Gentiles to provoke to emulation them which are of his flesh the Jews.this is not to say Gentiles were not present.

Notice that he is speaking to Gentiles, MB.

They were present at Rome...
That why he said, "I speak TO you Gentiles"

 

[Dave G]

Satan Blinds the minds of unbelievers.

Wow you give an awful lot of power to Satan that the Bible doesn't say he has.

" But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ).